Hey all,
I've got a couple questions for folks on this forum.
First, I got an older 8 (.35 REM) recently, and I have put a couple rounds through it. It shoots good, but I had an opportunity several years ago to shoot a friend's Browning A5 (12 ga) and the recoil spring was set up wrong. I realized this after the first couple shots punished my shoulder, and after getting the necessary parts (including a new recoil spring) the shotgun was surprisingly smooth! This gun feels good, but being so old (and, since the 8 is based on the same principle), is there any wear points I should look at, or preventative maintenance I should perform? I just want to make sure the gun is cycling properly before I do too much shooting.
Next, several friends who have seen the gun have mixed feelings about whether it has been reblued in the past (but, none of them are familiar with 8's). I know the gun was a closet queen most/all of its life, and well cared for, but I also know it was popular to refinish guns in the past. I suppose it is possible it was reblued, and has since developed patina also. Here are some pictures; if you've got a few minutes to look, and provide me your thoughts, I would certainly appreciate it. BTW ... you can zoom in real close, if you wish.
Looking forward to your feedback.
Thanks,
Chris
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23054315/M8/img_7086.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23054315/M8/img_7087.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23054315/M8/img_7088.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23054315/M8/img_7089.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23054315/M8/img_7090.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23054315/M8/img_7091.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23054315/M8/img_7092.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23054315/M8/img_7093.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23054315/M8/img_7094.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23054315/M8/img_7095.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23054315/M8/img_7096.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23054315/M8/img_7097.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23054315/M8/img_7098.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23054315/M8/img_7099.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23054315/M8/img_7100.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23054315/M8/img_7101.jpg
New Owner of Model 8 ...
Re: New Owner of Model 8 ...
Chris,
Welcome to the forum and congrats on your first Model 8 (it may not be your last!).
You wanted to know if the rifle was reblued. I'd like to get the opinions of others in here but this is just what I saw.
I can't say with certainty, but there are some indications it has been reblued. First off the blueing on the buttplate is almost too strong, this would be the very first place to loose its blue should the rifle have been used (even minimally). Second, the trademark stamp on the bottom tang looks buffed over as does other areas of the rifle. Third, the wood looks like it may have been very lightly sanded at some point.
I think you have a very nice looking Model 8, looks well cared for. I see a date stamp of KRR3 which is a factory repair performed in May 1946.
Shooting these old rifles it's always a good idea to inspect the firing pin once in a while and make sure it's in good shape. Some take apart the barrel assembly which is fine to thoroughly clean the barrel, jacket, springs, spring case, etc. If you want to do this I would highly recommend a reproduction spanner wrench to do it right. These can be found in our "Disassembly VIDEOS" page.
You'll have to tell us how your old "springpole" shoots
God bless.
Welcome to the forum and congrats on your first Model 8 (it may not be your last!).
You wanted to know if the rifle was reblued. I'd like to get the opinions of others in here but this is just what I saw.
I can't say with certainty, but there are some indications it has been reblued. First off the blueing on the buttplate is almost too strong, this would be the very first place to loose its blue should the rifle have been used (even minimally). Second, the trademark stamp on the bottom tang looks buffed over as does other areas of the rifle. Third, the wood looks like it may have been very lightly sanded at some point.
I think you have a very nice looking Model 8, looks well cared for. I see a date stamp of KRR3 which is a factory repair performed in May 1946.
Shooting these old rifles it's always a good idea to inspect the firing pin once in a while and make sure it's in good shape. Some take apart the barrel assembly which is fine to thoroughly clean the barrel, jacket, springs, spring case, etc. If you want to do this I would highly recommend a reproduction spanner wrench to do it right. These can be found in our "Disassembly VIDEOS" page.
You'll have to tell us how your old "springpole" shoots
God bless.
Cam Woodall
Site Co-Administrator
Site Co-Administrator
Re: New Owner of Model 8 ...
Welcome to the forum Chris. If you follow Cam`s advice you can`t go wrong. As to similarities of the A5 to the Mod 8 you are correct,however there is no provision for adjustment of the recoil spring with an 8.
You have a mighty handsome rifle and you have instantly endeared yourself to our fellow member Infuncity (Mitch), with the amount and clarity of your photos and with a zoom feature as a bonus.
I tend to agree with Cam`s observations that the UMC trademark looks to have been buffed. There are other areas that appear to have fine pits that were not completely polished out prior to rebluing. These are most evident in the cove area at the front of the receiver. Whoever did this "restoration" did a pretty good job.The pits in the area noted are the devil to get out.The edges of the metal are not rounded off and a rust blue was used that would have been the same as the original bluing. As Cam noted the wood does look to have been sanded. Though age and some shrinkage is to be expected with an arm this old the wood should stand a little prouder to the metal where it joins the receiver.
You certanly have nothing to apologize for and you may note my use of the word "restoration" rather than "reblue".This rifle in my opinion was restored not just reblued. We had a discussion of this subject a few weeks ago here on the 8. I invite you to review the post; Model 8 Reblue. How much decrease in value?
Again, welcome and enjoy shooting a great old rifle.
Joe
You have a mighty handsome rifle and you have instantly endeared yourself to our fellow member Infuncity (Mitch), with the amount and clarity of your photos and with a zoom feature as a bonus.
I tend to agree with Cam`s observations that the UMC trademark looks to have been buffed. There are other areas that appear to have fine pits that were not completely polished out prior to rebluing. These are most evident in the cove area at the front of the receiver. Whoever did this "restoration" did a pretty good job.The pits in the area noted are the devil to get out.The edges of the metal are not rounded off and a rust blue was used that would have been the same as the original bluing. As Cam noted the wood does look to have been sanded. Though age and some shrinkage is to be expected with an arm this old the wood should stand a little prouder to the metal where it joins the receiver.
You certanly have nothing to apologize for and you may note my use of the word "restoration" rather than "reblue".This rifle in my opinion was restored not just reblued. We had a discussion of this subject a few weeks ago here on the 8. I invite you to review the post; Model 8 Reblue. How much decrease in value?
Again, welcome and enjoy shooting a great old rifle.
Joe
".......ain't many troubles that a man cain't fix
With seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."
With seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."
Re: New Owner of Model 8 ...
I do work with historical display of firearms from time to time, and one of the signs of a reblue I was taught to look for was blue that was lighter where you expect it to be darker.
Most weapons have darker blue at mating points, such as where the barrel meets the receiver, where you do not expect handling, where cloth and gun rugs to not rub, and where the sling cannot get into the tiny corner. Unless the mate has significant rubbing from the process of mating and un-mating the barrel or trigger assembly (seen mostly in weapons maintained by an armory where the gunsmiths spend a lot of time tinkering) these mating points should be notably darker than the rest of the weapon.
People who reblue guns, even professionals, sometimes limited the amount of blue they add to mating surfaces - the surfaces often get stripped of the old blue than new blue is not added. This is not a sign of an incompetent job of bluing - quite the opposite. A careful firearm restoration intended to produce a weapon that can operate as it was originally designed will tread very carefully with operating surfaces, and will limit the bluing applied to mating surfaces.
Your weapon has several smoking guns to indicate rebluing (albeit a real classy, maybe even factory job of it). The big one: the barrel mate has worn blue but the barrel shroud is clear and nice, the opposite of what you should see in a gun without rebluing.
That said, your weapon is a real honey. Its blue is clear, even, and well applied. The screws on the weapon are blued separately but match the blue of the weapon, meaning someone did not slather on quick blue bought from Kresges (note the lack of streaking near the bolts). The calibre stamp on your barrel is clear and clean. There are no tool marks on the screws or hardware. The stock looks redone, but the red stain of the wood is pleasing, evenly applied, lacks goofy treatments, and the wood is intact. The weapon has had better sights added, but a nice touch is that the original sight mounting screws are intact and in place - my own 8 lost its screws according to the previous owner's grandson nearly 70 years ago. The gun shows no signs of old style gun care - when I first bought mine it had been cleaned with motor oil (the bubba oil of choice) for most of its life and had a considerable build up of this material in nooks and crannies.
I think you will find few on this forum who will begrudge a nice reblue for a weapon that was otherwise treated so well through out its life.
Most weapons have darker blue at mating points, such as where the barrel meets the receiver, where you do not expect handling, where cloth and gun rugs to not rub, and where the sling cannot get into the tiny corner. Unless the mate has significant rubbing from the process of mating and un-mating the barrel or trigger assembly (seen mostly in weapons maintained by an armory where the gunsmiths spend a lot of time tinkering) these mating points should be notably darker than the rest of the weapon.
People who reblue guns, even professionals, sometimes limited the amount of blue they add to mating surfaces - the surfaces often get stripped of the old blue than new blue is not added. This is not a sign of an incompetent job of bluing - quite the opposite. A careful firearm restoration intended to produce a weapon that can operate as it was originally designed will tread very carefully with operating surfaces, and will limit the bluing applied to mating surfaces.
Your weapon has several smoking guns to indicate rebluing (albeit a real classy, maybe even factory job of it). The big one: the barrel mate has worn blue but the barrel shroud is clear and nice, the opposite of what you should see in a gun without rebluing.
That said, your weapon is a real honey. Its blue is clear, even, and well applied. The screws on the weapon are blued separately but match the blue of the weapon, meaning someone did not slather on quick blue bought from Kresges (note the lack of streaking near the bolts). The calibre stamp on your barrel is clear and clean. There are no tool marks on the screws or hardware. The stock looks redone, but the red stain of the wood is pleasing, evenly applied, lacks goofy treatments, and the wood is intact. The weapon has had better sights added, but a nice touch is that the original sight mounting screws are intact and in place - my own 8 lost its screws according to the previous owner's grandson nearly 70 years ago. The gun shows no signs of old style gun care - when I first bought mine it had been cleaned with motor oil (the bubba oil of choice) for most of its life and had a considerable build up of this material in nooks and crannies.
I think you will find few on this forum who will begrudge a nice reblue for a weapon that was otherwise treated so well through out its life.
Re: New Owner of Model 8 ...
Western, Sarge756 and 81police,
Thank you so much for the feedback! I'm here in Western Michigan, and I've got property on the rifle side of the rifle/shotgun line; I'm looking forward to taking this out for deer season. Should be a good rifle in .35 REM.
If you have any suggestions for things to evaluate before doing much shooting, please let me know.
Take care,
Chris
Thank you so much for the feedback! I'm here in Western Michigan, and I've got property on the rifle side of the rifle/shotgun line; I'm looking forward to taking this out for deer season. Should be a good rifle in .35 REM.
If you have any suggestions for things to evaluate before doing much shooting, please let me know.
Take care,
Chris
Re: New Owner of Model 8 ...
Always have a gunsmith check older rifles. The pressures developed by the 35 rem is not all that great, but a stress crack or a mis-formed chamber could make the gun more dangerous to you than deer. After 9/11 my department was issued with hastily pulled M16A1s taken from the state armories. More than one exploded from metal defects on the range.
Re: New Owner of Model 8 ...
Indeed, great pictures - a real keeper, what year is it? I'm no expert but as has been suggested this could have been a factory restoration in '46. 
Before I "knew anything" about these old guns I liked them, bought couple and went shooting, like you did. They are tanks, made for shooting vs. being tinkered with (hence a special tool to disassemble the barrel). Since then I've learned to check a few things. One of those is the enclosed barrel springs, even though it will usually work VERY dirty with lots of crud inside, with a rifle as nice as yours disassembly, clean and lube would be a good idea. Several posts have suggestions regarding DIY tools but if anymore there are anymore in your future, getting a good tool along with Henwood’s book should be on your short list.
Welcome, enjoy and let us see those shooting results.
Before I "knew anything" about these old guns I liked them, bought couple and went shooting, like you did. They are tanks, made for shooting vs. being tinkered with (hence a special tool to disassemble the barrel). Since then I've learned to check a few things. One of those is the enclosed barrel springs, even though it will usually work VERY dirty with lots of crud inside, with a rifle as nice as yours disassembly, clean and lube would be a good idea. Several posts have suggestions regarding DIY tools but if anymore there are anymore in your future, getting a good tool along with Henwood’s book should be on your short list.
Welcome, enjoy and let us see those shooting results.
Though defensive violence will always be “a sad necessity” in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men. - St. Augustine
Re: New Owner of Model 8 ...
Sweeeeeeet!
Clint
Clint
[b][color=#0040FF]Time is the Essence of Life, Wine, and Great Guns[/color][/b]
Re: New Owner of Model 8 ...
imfuncity,
According to the serial number data at this site, this gun was mfg'd in 1915.
81police,
You say:
All,
Again, thank you for all the good information!
According to the serial number data at this site, this gun was mfg'd in 1915.
81police,
You say:
Is there a public source for how you interpreted the KRR3 stamping?I think you have a very nice looking Model 8, looks well cared for. I see a date stamp of KRR3 which is a factory repair performed in May 1946.
All,
Again, thank you for all the good information!
Re: New Owner of Model 8 ...
Remington started use of a "date code" system in 1921.
Seeing letters alone will determine the month and year of mfg. Seeing letters with numbers can indicate several things.
"3" is a factory repair
"4" indicates the firearm was "return as received" meaning it was not repaired and Remington will do no further work on the firearm. (such a rifle having been through a fire).
"5" indicates an employee sale.
I've heard a "6" is a Canadian order but don't hold me to that it's only hearsay. Maybe someone else in here can enlighten us on that!
Our brothers at the RSA (Remington Society of America) have a nice link here...
http://www.remingtonsociety.com/questio ... OWDERX.htm
Seeing letters alone will determine the month and year of mfg. Seeing letters with numbers can indicate several things.
"3" is a factory repair
"4" indicates the firearm was "return as received" meaning it was not repaired and Remington will do no further work on the firearm. (such a rifle having been through a fire).
"5" indicates an employee sale.
I've heard a "6" is a Canadian order but don't hold me to that it's only hearsay. Maybe someone else in here can enlighten us on that!
Our brothers at the RSA (Remington Society of America) have a nice link here...
http://www.remingtonsociety.com/questio ... OWDERX.htm
Cam Woodall
Site Co-Administrator
Site Co-Administrator