Howdy folks,
This is my debut on this forum.
I've got an 81 in 300 Savage apart for a general cleanup and going through and discovered the barrel extension has a little wiggle to it. I don't imagine it's supposed to be loose at all on the barrel, but as this is my first Model 8/81 deep dive, I don't know if this is typical or indicative of problems.
The barrel extension has both a spline and a blind pin in it to keep it timed. I ASSUME there must be some threads inside the extension because I don't understand how the extension would handle the load from the bolt otherwise.
Are there any experts here who can advise me on this barrel? I have a video of this barrel/extension that I can share.
Jason
81 300 Savage loose barrel extension
Re: 81 300 Savage loose barrel extension
Welcome to the forum Jason.
Here's a link that will give you a better understanding of it.
viewtopic.php?p=22275&hilit=jacket+exte ... 802#p22275
You can find a few other posts on the forum regarding this using the search function.
I too have had a autoloader that had wiggle in the shroud. I couldn't flare the pin enough to make it snug. I ended up having my gunsmith do a professional job of doing a light brazing job on the threaded portion "no brazing is visible from the surface."
Good luck and I hope to hear good news of it getting fixed up.
Here's a link that will give you a better understanding of it.
viewtopic.php?p=22275&hilit=jacket+exte ... 802#p22275
You can find a few other posts on the forum regarding this using the search function.
I too have had a autoloader that had wiggle in the shroud. I couldn't flare the pin enough to make it snug. I ended up having my gunsmith do a professional job of doing a light brazing job on the threaded portion "no brazing is visible from the surface."
Good luck and I hope to hear good news of it getting fixed up.
Re: 81 300 Savage loose barrel extension
I concur with Luke, even the FBI brazed the shroud to the yoke, I suggest the smith will need to unscrew the shroud & prep the threads B4 brazing. Therefore He/She will need to be a professional with the machine tools to back it up. Not a job for a hand drill or a cheapo drill press.
Phyrbird
SOKY
SOKY
Re: 81 300 Savage loose barrel extension
I believe JRD is talking about the barrel itself being loose in the barrel extension.
There is in fact a blind pin in the extension that keeps barrel from moving. There is also a witness mark on the bottom of barrel extension and barrel to indicate original installation position when pinned.
Not sure if these pins are tapered or not. If they are tapered they can be driven tight again with a hammer and punch.
There is in fact a blind pin in the extension that keeps barrel from moving. There is also a witness mark on the bottom of barrel extension and barrel to indicate original installation position when pinned.
Not sure if these pins are tapered or not. If they are tapered they can be driven tight again with a hammer and punch.
Re: 81 300 Savage loose barrel extension
You're correct. I made a mistake reading his post.
Re: 81 300 Savage loose barrel extension
Thank you all gents. I was indeed referring to the barrel extension that the bolt head locks into and not the barrel shroud.
My barrel shroud was loose too, and I had searched to find the loose shroud thread. I already fixed that, at least temporarily, by riveting the pin.
The barrel extension has both a blind pin around the 2:00 position and a key in a spline at 6:00 below the feed ramp. My extension wiggles on the barrel. I can wobble it maybe 1/16” total, with movement being allowed in either direction from the timing mark.
I see my options in increasing order of difficulty as:
1- rivet the blind pin to take up the play. I see this as the least robust and most likely to loosen back up, but the easiest to do.
2- hit a few spots around the seam with the TIG and dress the weld down smooth. If I keep the tacks of weld small there should be minimal heat affected zone.
3-Mill out the blind pin, figure out how to remove the spline and totally remove the extension, then figure out what is loose in the connection and tighten it either by making a shim, selective peening, or some other method. And finally reassemble, repin, and reinstall the key in the spline.
I was really hoping someone had been here before and could share their experience in what approach they took. I may have to give it a shot based on my intuition and can report on how I make out.
My barrel shroud was loose too, and I had searched to find the loose shroud thread. I already fixed that, at least temporarily, by riveting the pin.
The barrel extension has both a blind pin around the 2:00 position and a key in a spline at 6:00 below the feed ramp. My extension wiggles on the barrel. I can wobble it maybe 1/16” total, with movement being allowed in either direction from the timing mark.
I see my options in increasing order of difficulty as:
1- rivet the blind pin to take up the play. I see this as the least robust and most likely to loosen back up, but the easiest to do.
2- hit a few spots around the seam with the TIG and dress the weld down smooth. If I keep the tacks of weld small there should be minimal heat affected zone.
3-Mill out the blind pin, figure out how to remove the spline and totally remove the extension, then figure out what is loose in the connection and tighten it either by making a shim, selective peening, or some other method. And finally reassemble, repin, and reinstall the key in the spline.
I was really hoping someone had been here before and could share their experience in what approach they took. I may have to give it a shot based on my intuition and can report on how I make out.
Re: 81 300 Savage loose barrel extension
Given the significant degree of difficulty between options 1 and 2 and the nuclear option 3, I went with option 1 last night. I gave the alignment pin a few whacks with a pointed punch. The pin upset a bit and took out the wiggle. The pin is clearly soft steel and I don't think it will be a very durable solution.
I put the gun back together and will test fire it. Honestly, unless you remove the barrel from the jacket, you wouldn't know the extension was loose on the barrel. I'm guessing there are probably more loose extensions on barrels than people realize.
I also checked my library of old gunsmithing books and no one seemed to write about repairing Remington Model 8's back in the day either. Remington shotguns and other rifles, yes, but not the Model 8, at least in the several old books I checked the index in.
I'm going to test fire the gun this weekend hopefully. At the very least the quick and easy option 1 does no harm if I decide to later proceed with a more robust option.
I put the gun back together and will test fire it. Honestly, unless you remove the barrel from the jacket, you wouldn't know the extension was loose on the barrel. I'm guessing there are probably more loose extensions on barrels than people realize.
I also checked my library of old gunsmithing books and no one seemed to write about repairing Remington Model 8's back in the day either. Remington shotguns and other rifles, yes, but not the Model 8, at least in the several old books I checked the index in.
I'm going to test fire the gun this weekend hopefully. At the very least the quick and easy option 1 does no harm if I decide to later proceed with a more robust option.
Re: 81 300 Savage loose barrel extension
Glad to hear option 1 snugged it up! You very well could be right that there's some out there that have that going on and it not be known. I imagine that your fix will get you through a bunch of rounds before it loosens up again.JRD wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 6:25 am Given the significant degree of difficulty between options 1 and 2 and the nuclear option 3, I went with option 1 last night. I gave the alignment pin a few whacks with a pointed punch. The pin upset a bit and took out the wiggle. The pin is clearly soft steel and I don't think it will be a very durable solution.
I put the gun back together and will test fire it. Honestly, unless you remove the barrel from the jacket, you wouldn't know the extension was loose on the barrel. I'm guessing there are probably more loose extensions on barrels than people realize.
I also checked my library of old gunsmithing books and no one seemed to write about repairing Remington Model 8's back in the day either. Remington shotguns and other rifles, yes, but not the Model 8, at least in the several old books I checked the index in.
I'm going to test fire the gun this weekend hopefully. At the very least the quick and easy option 1 does no harm if I decide to later proceed with a more robust option.
I've seen a few pictures of barrel extensions for sale, but I've never seen the "capture pin" and or how they're to be.
Re: 81 300 Savage loose barrel extension
There may be very low rotational forces on the barrel when fired. I doubt it loosened due to being used over the years however reefing on a seized barrel nut may force barrel to turn slightly in the extension.
Re: 81 300 Savage loose barrel extension
Well I fired the 81 for the first time yesterday. I fired four rounds just to check the sights. It functioned fine.
I took the barrel off just now. You don’t need to fully disassemble the barrel assembly to check for extension wiggle. With the barrel off, I retracted the barrel enough to grab the exposed portion ahead of the receiver so I could hold it by that diameter. And felt the extension. Yup, a little wiggle is already back in only four shots.
I bet there is some degree of torque on the barrel during firing from friction on the locking lug surfaces as the bolt unlocks.
I took the barrel off just now. You don’t need to fully disassemble the barrel assembly to check for extension wiggle. With the barrel off, I retracted the barrel enough to grab the exposed portion ahead of the receiver so I could hold it by that diameter. And felt the extension. Yup, a little wiggle is already back in only four shots.
I bet there is some degree of torque on the barrel during firing from friction on the locking lug surfaces as the bolt unlocks.
Re: 81 300 Savage loose barrel extension
If you have a way to look at page 131 of John Henwood’s book there is an article that deals with this problem. This was quite a common issue with the FBI models due to their high use. They used a mixture of litharge and glycerine paste on the barrel and extension threads and screwed together aligning the witness marks.
I am sure that one of the types of loc-tight thread locker would work.
Could drill a hole in center of pin for a self tapping screw and pull the pin before attempting to turn barrel out of extension far enough to apply thread locker.
I am sure that one of the types of loc-tight thread locker would work.
Could drill a hole in center of pin for a self tapping screw and pull the pin before attempting to turn barrel out of extension far enough to apply thread locker.
Re: 81 300 Savage loose barrel extension
Had a Loctite seminar back in the day, blue should be sufficient as long as the parts don't warm too much. Purple would be a possibility, but is really for small parts & low strength. If forced to use red be absolutely sure to heat the threads to the right temp before any attempt to unthread. I HAVE removed threads joined with red unscrewing ALLEN bolts.
However Loctite products are mostly for preventing unscrewing, keep it in mind.
However Loctite products are mostly for preventing unscrewing, keep it in mind.
Phyrbird
SOKY
SOKY