odd failure

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Hibby83
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odd failure

Post by Hibby83 »

Shooting up the rest of a box of 35 REM PMC 200 grain ammo last night i had a malfunction. The barrel stuck back after 6-7 shots. I brought it to the table and started tinkering. To my surprise I had a recoil spring case failure.

The barrel shroud on this gun hasn't been apart in two years, the ammo didn't seem to recoil any different than Rem core-lokts. I highly doubt a foreign object came into my shroud. I've never heard anyone having a similar issue. I asked 81Police and he said that it's the first he saw.

Long story short the only thing that was damaged was the spring case. I can't figure what went wrong only speculation. This gun worked flawlessly up to last night.

A replacement will be making it's way to my mailbox in the near future.
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MinnesotaDan
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Re: odd failure

Post by MinnesotaDan »

Wow. I would not have guessed that the spring case would fail.

Thanks for posting, I will add that to the list of possible reasons for a barrel sticking.
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Hibby83
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Re: odd failure

Post by Hibby83 »

Yes MinnesotaDan- that's a possibility of the barrel sticking to the rear. My circumstance- The barrel stuck to the rear due to broken bits preventing foreward movement of the recoil spring case.

All I can guess is fatigue causing the issue even though the front lip is not really a load bearing part? My buffer is fine, my recoil spring is good and there's no shroud issues "dents/grime or corrosion".
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Phyrbird
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Re: odd failure

Post by Phyrbird »

Luke
That's the first one of those I've ever seen fail...
Only thing I can imagine is age & lots of rounds causing fatigue. Good find, wondering how you got it apart with the barrel stuck back. I had the same thing happen with a A5, it went boing at the wrong time, I had a cut that took 2 weeks to heal up. The chamber got varnished from oil & stuck the hull in the chamber...
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Hibby83
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Re: odd failure

Post by Hibby83 »

This guy had the same problem. I'm not the only one.hah

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5661&p=21669&hilit= ... ab6#p21669

I found this while trying to see if there was any standard measurements on the recoil spring itself. I placed my only spare "not in an assembly" beside the one that came out of the rifle that i had issue with. It was approximately 1.5" longer than what came out of my 35. The diameter of the wire spring itself was almost 5 thousandths different "negligible". That spring had seen a bit of grime over the years but appears serviceable, just a little rough on the edges. Perhaps an hour in the vibratory tumbler would smooth it out.
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Hibby83
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Re: odd failure

Post by Hibby83 »

Phyrbird wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 9:51 pm Luke
That's the first one of those I've ever seen fail...
Only thing I can imagine is age & lots of rounds causing fatigue. Good find, wondering how you got it apart with the barrel stuck back. I had the same thing happen with a A5, it went boing at the wrong time, I had a cut that took 2 weeks to heal up. The chamber got varnished from oil & stuck the hull in the chamber...
Glad to hear you got it back together and that you weren't maimed up worse.

I was able to get behind the bolt carrier with a non-marring piece and used a very small hammer on the shaft of it pushing the assembly forward a little bit with each strike.
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Hibby83
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Re: odd failure

Post by Hibby83 »

updated situation report-

Received the replacement shortly before 7pm 'easterm time". Grabbed a takeout pizza from a non-chain shop. I ate one slice after i got home and did some clean up on the new to me recoil spring case. Took my time getting the barreled assembly put together and took it to my short range "25 yds" behind my house.

Loaded up and shot 2 sets of 3 rounds without malfunction. All 6 were either in or on the edge of the 1 1/2" circle of my target. wooo

I can now say that I'm feeling relieved!
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Hibby83
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Re: odd failure

Post by Hibby83 »

Everyone likes photos.

Here's the gun before install, prepped and waiting.
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Hcompton79
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Location: Michigan

Re: odd failure

Post by Hcompton79 »

Looking at the photos of your spring case, it looks like the failure area is crystalline in nature with voids visible. This would be a metallurgical issue in manufacturing, either the quality of steel used or the heat treatment. I expect it had no external evidence of this, or it would have been culled during the inspection/gauging process.
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Hibby83
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Re: odd failure

Post by Hibby83 »

Hcompton79 wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 7:15 pm Looking at the photos of your spring case, it looks like the failure area is crystalline in nature with voids visible. This would be a metallurgical issue in manufacturing, either the quality of steel used or the heat treatment. I expect it had no external evidence of this, or it would have been culled during the inspection/gauging process.
The recoil case spring on this rifle looked as good as any I've seen in the teardowns that I've done. There was no visible issues with it that i could see.

I call this gun my workhorse, it appears to have been well cared for but used afield. I like to think the wear on the receiver is from bloodied hands from the harvests of the prior owners.

I believe I underestimated the force that is brought back to it during operation.

When hiccups happen with old rifles it raises concern, what happened, can i replace it, did something else get damaged, why am i shooting a 100+ year old gun(ha) and more of the like.
Hcompton79
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Re: odd failure

Post by Hcompton79 »

My comment was referring to the spring case itself, not the recoil spring.

It appears the metal was too brittle. Ideally with most firearms components, you want steel that will deform when it reaches its failure point, rather than shatter, which appears to be the case for the spring case pictured above. The early 1903 Springfield receivers would be an example of this, as the heat treat was not quite right and they would shatter when faced with an overpressure cartridge or bore obstruction.
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Hibby83
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Re: odd failure

Post by Hibby83 »

Hcompton79 wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 9:08 pm My comment was referring to the spring case itself, not the recoil spring
Oops, I did mean to type spring case.
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