FN1900 Bolt stuck back.

Information on Malfunctions and Care of your Model 8 & 81
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Oleson
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Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2022 1:30 pm

FN1900 Bolt stuck back.

Post by Oleson »

Hi, everyone. I was hoping my first post here would be a nice story about my new-to-me FN1900. But it would have to be this instead... I have taken the barrel assembly off and cleaned it, put it back on, and the bolt is stuck to the rear. Now, I thought the bolt was supposed to be locked back for the barrel to be taken off. That one is on me. But now nothing works. At all. Bolt release does nothing. Poking every single thing in the reciever to see if it fress the bolt does nothing. It worked fine before i messed it up, cycling and everything, so it wasn't like this before. Any tips?

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jack1653
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Re: FN1900 Bolt stuck back.

Post by jack1653 »

Hey Oleson,

Welcome to the forum. In answer to your question, my first thought is that when you reassembled the rifle you did not get the barrel lock spring inserted correctly. There is a groove in the receiver that the tab on the thin metal spring did not get set in the groove. This is not unusual and you may have put it in the groove but it can easily come out.

If this is not the case, someone else may have a suggestion.

Regards,

jack1653

Oleson
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Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2022 1:30 pm

Re: FN1900 Bolt stuck back.

Post by Oleson »

Not sure what you mean. I haven't dissambled the reciever at all. Do you mean on the flat ends of barrel assembly and reciever, and where they meet? Because the barrel assembly is put back on correctly afaik.

Rifleman
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Re: FN1900 Bolt stuck back.

Post by Rifleman »

Had the same problem when I reassembled my first 81 for the first time. Looking things over noticed that the barrel lock spring jack1653 mentioned not inserted into the receiver groove as it should be. Had put it in the groove upon reassembly, but it popped out during the process. Reinserted and action worked as designed. Sort of a tricky procedure, but not bad once ya get the hang of it and keep an eye on during assembly. May not be your problem, but something to check first.

Oleson
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Re: FN1900 Bolt stuck back.

Post by Oleson »

I googled barrel lock spring. As I said, I have not disassembled the reciever at all. Nothing taken out of it. And it worked fine before I locked the bolt back and took off the barrel assembly.

Rifleman
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Re: FN1900 Bolt stuck back.

Post by Rifleman »

OK, but is the barrel lock spring tab in the groove of the receiver. The left side of the spring (appears as sort of a T) on the end of the spring needs to be in the groove. Understand you didn't take the parts out of the receiver, but one time in my early days I took the barrel assembly off for cleaning, reattached and the bolt wouldn't release. Somehow, no idea how, but discovered that the T end of the lock spring had come out of the groove somehow not allowing the bold to close. It's not supposed to, but I was messing around some with the receiver and evidently the spring popped out of the groove. It is held in place by the bolt in normal operation. Possibly if the spring is out of the groove, it popped out when you took the barrel off with the bolt retracted. I always check it when putting the barrel assembly back on to back sure it is in place. I've even seen it partially out of place after taking the barrel off with the bolt retracked and not even messing with the stocked receiver. Out of place it will not allow the bolt to return to battery.

Oleson
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Re: FN1900 Bolt stuck back.

Post by Oleson »

Ok, now I understand. English is not my first language... I'll check it out. Thanks.

Oleson
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Re: FN1900 Bolt stuck back.

Post by Oleson »

Cant see that anything is wrong or off... Except the follower and spring hitting my face because I'm an idiot and poked it.
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jack1653
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Re: FN1900 Bolt stuck back.

Post by jack1653 »

Make certain that you put the magazine spring in the right direction or you will have another issue!!!! The ends of the spring points to the stock end of the rifle.

jack1653

Oleson
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Re: FN1900 Bolt stuck back.

Post by Oleson »

Noted, thanks. But that won't be an issue as long as I can't get the bolt forward. I have actually given up. There is nothing more I can do at this point. Trigger group and buttstock can't be disassembled as long as the bolt is locked to the rear, and the bolt is stuck in place. I have nothing more to poke and move around in there.

Oleson
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Re: FN1900 Bolt stuck back.

Post by Oleson »

Managed to get it apart. Put it back together. First time racking the bolt back, stuck. Took it apart, triple checked every single piece and its placement. Put it back together. Rack the bolt back, and stuck...

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Hibby83
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Re: FN1900 Bolt stuck back.

Post by Hibby83 »

I'm sorry to hear you're still having issue with the 1900.

Is the whole gun a matching #'s gun? The barrel is original? Does it appear that any modification has been done to any of the parts while it was apart? No gouges, sharp edges or deformation to the of the receiver ?

I can't brainstorm via the description what the exact problem is. My advice is to inspect the barrel lock and the fit of the barreled assembly when mounted to the receiver and to include the parts i have listed at the end of my post. I understand that there are parts on the 1900 that differ from the 8's & 81's but i suggest you compare with photos from the internet of your barrel lock, bolt carrier latch and check the condition "spring strength & completeness" of the bolt carrier latch spring.

Rifleman
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Re: FN1900 Bolt stuck back.

Post by Rifleman »

Can't say my problem with the bolt not returning is yours, but here is a brief story on when it happened to me. Got my first 81 (300 Sav) 5-6 years ago. Worked fine shooting some rounds off and manually working the bolt and releasing. The bolt carrier latch screw (#9 in the NRA schematic) had had some bad tweaking once upon a time (screw slot messed up), didn't like the looks so I decided to straighten it out.

I did something I've always never done and have always told others not to do. Dismantle or partially do so without a full understanding of how the parts work and their relationship to each other. I screwed the latch screw out to allow me to use a screw slot file to straighten the nasty bunged up screw. Filed, reblued and screwed back it. I had looked inside of the receiver hole where the screw went and all looked like everything was in alignment, so I replaced the screw. Should have inserted a like size pin as I retracted the screw but didn't.

The first time I took the bolt back after reassembly, it wouldn't return, really jammed to the rear. So, I read and watched as much as I could both written and video on the workings, disassembly, and reassembly of a 8/81. After I took the trigger group off the receiver, I saw what the problem was. The Bolt carrier Latch (#20) was tipped more than it should be, locking the bolt secure, not allowing it to be released. I was able to manually release the latch, but noticed that the sear area seemed to be damaged. Took the latch and latch spring off from the receiver. Before doing so I noticed that the latch Spring (#19) didn't seem to be sitting on the latch real even. Upon examining the latch spring it seemed to be sprung some, i.e., the ends seemed not to be lined up as they should be. I reassembled, but upon pulling the bolt back, it jammed again. Upon taking the trigger assembly off, the latch was tipped as before, locking the bolt securely. Called the previous owner and he advised the 81 had always worked fine.

I believe what happened and another more experienced 8/81 shooter agreed, is that when I removed the bolt carrier latch screw there was alot of tension on the bolt latch due to the spring tension on it. With the screw removed, the tension of the latch spring on the latch caused it to move a bit within the receiver. Since the screw shaft wasn't anchored on both sides of the receiver, the strong latch spring tension caused it to 'spring' a bit out of shape which also damaged the sear area of the latch.

When I recrewed the latch screw back after refiling the slot and rebluing, things weren't in a 'harmonious situation' as designed by John Browning. Like a fine watch, all the gears and parts if not in a harmonious condition as designed will not allow that watch to function as designed. After buying a new latch and latch spring and installing, things worked fine. The rifle functioned as designed and the bolt wouldn't permanently lock back as before. Lesson learned!!!!!!

Can't say this is your problem. Possibly someone caused a similar problem with your rifle Oleson or it just happened. Murphey's Law! I can't recall from your first post, had you successfully fired the rifle a number of times or worked the bolt back a number of times without firing? Possibly you could after taking the forearm and barrel off, remove the trigger assembly from the receiver to eyeball the inner parts to see the condition of the bolt latch and latch spring. There are alot of guys here on the forum with a whole lot more experience than I that hopefully will chime in. jack1653 and Hibby are two of em, anyway, just my thoughts, maybe has nothing to do with your problem, but just had to flap my jaw or fingers would be more appropriate. :lol: Good luck. Rifleman.

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S and S HUNTCLUB
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Re: FN1900 Bolt stuck back.

Post by S and S HUNTCLUB »

Hello, Sorry to here you're having an issue. With the barrel assemble installed, have you tried putting some rearward pressure on the bolt carrier handle and then, at the same time, pulling down on the magazine indicator thumb piece? Try this while putting some back and forth pressure on the bolt handle.
Enjoy life, Bob

Oleson
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Re: FN1900 Bolt stuck back.

Post by Oleson »

Yep. This little bugger won't drop down to release the bolt. I don't think it is wear and tear, none of the parts look worn down enough to cause this. So it has to be something I'm doing wrong. But for the life of me I can't figure out what.... According to diagrams, YouTube, pictures, my engineer and mechanic brother, a oujia board and my seven year old son everything is in it's place. Thanks for the help everyone, I will now seek the help of the British, in form of gin. Can't get worse.
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Hibby83
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Re: FN1900 Bolt stuck back.

Post by Hibby83 »

Best of luck on getting it back into service.

Hope to hear good news soon.

Rifleman
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Re: FN1900 Bolt stuck back.

Post by Rifleman »

How is the 1900 coming Oleson? I've been reviewing in my mind how all the parts work and interact. Think I might even partially tear one of mine down after this weekend. Has to be something so evident but overlooked. Not too long ago someone posted on the forum a really good video of the operation of the 8/81 parts and how they interacted with each other. Was the best I'd ever seen. Tried to find it this AM but no luck. Had it on my favorites, but now all I get is "Can't be found"!!! Was wondering if your barrel lock is positioned right and/or the spring is exerting enough pressure. Also is the barrel lock arm positioned right to release the bolt latch and was the barrel latch spring in the correct position? Just thoughts!!!

Rifleman
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Re: FN1900 Bolt stuck back.

Post by Rifleman »

Oleson----Found the video I referred to in my previous post. Since I'm not super handy in computer gymnastics and don't have the 'what for' to place the link, I'll explain where to find it.

It's located in the 'Questions and Answers About The 8/81' section of this forum. On page 1, the post is five (5) up from the bottom of page 1. Post titled 'Barrel Lock and Barrel Lock Spring' posted by 'Superimposed' on March 6, 2021. Last post dated March 8, 2021, posted by 'cantgrowup'. The video was posted by Hcompton79' on March 7, 2021 and was a video done by C&Rsenal.

Very good video showing the operation of the Model 8/81, showing how the parts work, their function, how they interact with each other, and alot of other information. Maybe there will be some 'nugget' of info that will help you with your 1900. One of the best video's I've ever seen on the 8/81 operation. Maybe someone will come to my rescue and post the video link here on this thread. :D

(The full video can be seen on C&Rsenal's youtube channel by typing in the search-'Small Arms of WW1 Primer 108 US Remington Model 8).

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S and S HUNTCLUB
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Re: FN1900 Bolt stuck back.

Post by S and S HUNTCLUB »

Here's the video link that Rifleman was referring too.

https://youtu.be/hisyNvnaoio?t=1063

I took a screen shot of the illustration of the operation of the bolt and components

If you lock your bolt back and remove the barrel, the barrel extension is no longer adding slight downward pressure to the BARREL LOCK (part #130 on the Remington Components list) The part names are the same for the FN 1900. Without the downward pressure of the barrel extension on the BARREL LOCK, the rearward end of the BARREL LOCK drops, which allows the front of the BOLT CARRIER LATCH (part #20) to drop and it raises the rear of the BOLT CARRIER LATCH...which then engages with the bolt carrier latch slot on the bottom of the BOLT CARRIER (part #19).

At this point in time, you will not be able to release the bolt forward by using the "Thumb Release" on the Magazine Assembly Indicator (part #485 complete assembly), because the BOLT CARRIER LATCH is engaged with the slot in the bottom of the BOLT CARRIER.

The easiest way to release the rearward locked bolt, is to reinstall the barrel assembly, which puts the required pressure back onto the front of the BOLT LOCK and Releases the BOLT CARRIER LATCH from the bottom of the BOLT CARRIER.

(WITHOUT THE BARREL INSTALLED) If you had some help from a bystander, they could push down on the BARREL LOCK and you could gently move the bolt carrier group forward, by using the "Thumb Release" on the Magazine Assembly Indicator.

I hope this helps to explain my earlier post a little more clearly, as I've been in the same scenario in the past.

The comment by Rifleman led me to the video and I was able to pause the video and grab a screenshot and put the picture here for more clarification, as to the relationship of the components and how they all work together.

Enjoy Life, Bob
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jack1653
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Re: FN1900 Bolt stuck back.

Post by jack1653 »

Hey Bob,

That is a good response and explanation. I have never seen the illustration or video before. A picture is worth a thousand words.

Regards,

Jack

Rifleman
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Re: FN1900 Bolt stuck back.

Post by Rifleman »

jack1653 wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 5:30 pm
Hey Bob,

That is a good response and explanation. I have never seen the illustration or video before. A picture is worth a thousand words.

Regards,

Jack
Yes, it is!!!! Thank you Bob for posting 'link' and the great explanation. I enjoy watching that video, pausing it, replaying, almost like having John Browning at your side explaining his action. Heading to my favorite and most supported gun shop (FFL) to pick up my 3rd 81 today. A pre-WW2 81 in 35 Remington. Have been on the hunt for one in good shape and reasonable price for some time without any D&T holes in receiver, butt pad, and other non-factory add on's.

Picked up a good quantity of new brass some time back, a like new used RCBS die set--all I need now is a proper mold to cast 200 grain bullets. Have name in at several outfits when available, one on backorder unless I run across one before. Anyone who may have a Lee .358 200 grain double cavity mold or comparable RCBS or Lyman mold they want to get rid of, I may be interested.

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S and S HUNTCLUB
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Re: FN1900 Bolt stuck back.

Post by S and S HUNTCLUB »

Thanks guys! I appreciate it.
Rifleman's Model 81 in 35 REM sounds nice. Sounds like your excited! I know I always am, when a different one comes in. Their all unique in their own way.

I found a Lee 90449 for you Rifleman. You'll have to view your other post for the details.

Enjoy Life, Bob

Rifleman
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Re: FN1900 Bolt stuck back.

Post by Rifleman »

Curious Oleson, had any luck with your 1900?

Also, in reference to one of my earlier posts, I acquired a Lee .358, 200 grain mold, although a 6 cavity.

Oleson
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Re: FN1900 Bolt stuck back.

Post by Oleson »

That problem solved. Now the locking lugs are not in the right position. Thing is, the loose pins in the bolt assembly (one circled in red on picture) holds the bolt in the wrong position, and these cant move when the bolt assembly is in its place in the action.

This is so much fun...
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chas1949
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Re: FN1900 Bolt stuck back.

Post by chas1949 »

You need to push the bolt lock in on the other side of the bolt carrier before the bolt will rotate. There is a small ramp on the inside of receiver that does this when carrier is in receiver. When the barrel is released and moves back toward battery it pulls the bolt forward and rotating it to unlock from barrel extension. When barrel is in battery the bolt carrier is released so that bolt contacts barrel extension and rotates to lock bolts into barrel extension.

Oleson
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Re: FN1900 Bolt stuck back.

Post by Oleson »

Success. Kinda. Won't cycle. Bolt and barrel locked to the rear after firing. Just touching the bokt handle releases it, so apparently it just hangs on the bolt lock or something. Nice to shoot with, no recoil and good enough trigger.
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