Firsy attempt: not enough lubing?

Information on Malfunctions and Care of your Model 8 & 81
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LyingBastard
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:51 am

Firsy attempt: not enough lubing?

Post by LyingBastard » Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:19 pm

So I took my Model 8 to the range yesterday. Ammo was a Remington-brand green box of 35 Remington in 200gr. As with all of my new 9to me firearms) I put one single round in magazine, pull bolt back, and let it go. And It did not want to close all the way:
Remington_Model8_27.jpg
Remington_Model8_27.jpg (296.01 KiB) Viewed 1263 times
Remington_Model8_28.jpg
Remington_Model8_28.jpg (268.79 KiB) Viewed 1263 times
A few more attempts and I was able to close it, or so I thought because pulling trigger would result in no boom. I would then pull bolt back again, noticing it did not grab round, and let it slam forward for the second time and finally pressing trigger would cause boom, and the bolt would lock back, but not grab spent round. Using another cartridge as a lever (plenty of 556 spent cartridges on the ground), I had no problems grabbing the spent 35 Remington brass, which had a different shine on its body compared to spend rounds of other rifles I've shot.
Remington_Model8_30.jpg
Remington_Model8_30.jpg (298.82 KiB) Viewed 1263 times
I repeated this another two times, each with slightly improved results: brass #3 was actually grabbed and pulled back a distance but still not lopped off the rifle.

So, needs lube? I will say operating the bolt does feel like there is a bit of a drag. If so, where? If not, should I tear apart bolt assembly and clean/lube it (no lubing firing pin channel)?

Rifleman
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:07 pm

Re: Firsy attempt: not enough lubing?

Post by Rifleman » Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:10 am

I thought also that my bolt or the 'innards' in my 300 Savage Model 81 may be dry, needing some lube (if you've read the 'trials and tribulations' and 'woes' in my "First Time Shooting Problems" post). I took the barrel and stock off and using a needle oiler lubed where I could see that any metal to metal contact could/may occur. I didn't take the trigger assembly off or any other disassembly as I wanted to see if what I did lube would work. I didn't over lube, just a drop here and there, didn't do squat as to relieving any of my problems. May yours, hope so. I've read just about everything I can find on the web about what is causing my ills. Waiting on a barrel tool I ordered to take a look at the barrel springs. Received some good tips from forum members, if barrel springs are ok, I'm back to looking at other remedies and tips. I'm a long time shooter to AR's, bolt and lever action rifles, but this is my first semiauto of this type, problem is heightened due to the fact none of my shooting friends or others I talk to are familiar to the 8/81 workings. Good luck in your Rx.

Rifleman
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:07 pm

Re: Firsy attempt: not enough lubing?

Post by Rifleman » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:52 am

To all of you veteran/long time 8/81 shooters, what is the proper/needed lubing the 8/81 needs and likes. I've been shooting firearms since a wee lad of 15 back in the 60's, have shot and gunsmithed a variety of types and actions over the years. With the problems I've had with my 81 300 Savage (posted in 'First time shooting problems), I've watched a number of video's, read a lot of info, and just received a Henwood book I ordered. I just disassembled my 81 and can see where lubrication should be, ie pivot points, metal/metal contact, etc, but to you long time shooters, where do you normally lube and possibly use grease vs oil that the action likes and possibly areas that may be overlooked. Reference my problems with my 81, "I Think" I may have found what was causing my issues, will report back on my original post after I get the 'Ol Girl' stoned a bit (pretty rough in areas) and back reassembled and reshooting. Likened to having your shoulder or knee out of joint on your body-things just don't work right. :(

greg
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:03 pm
Location: N.E. Ohio

Re: Firsy attempt: not enough lubing?

Post by greg » Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:47 am

Hi Lying Bastard,
Not sure if you'd cured your problem by now or not, but I believe I know your (or anybody else that has a similar issue as you) problem of the bolt not fully closing; and it is not likely due to lack of lubrication. Using the parts diagram and the numbering sequence that is in the sticky that 81Police posted in Troubleshooting/Maint., you should check to see if your magazine indicator/spring (#23 & # 24) is properly installed. More specifically, the magazine indicator spring (24) has a little tab on it that must be sitting in a little pocket machined into the side wall of the receiver. This can be easily verified by looking into the open action with the bolt fully retracted. If you can see the spring tab sitting on top of the rail in the action then it is not correct and will impede the bolt from properly closing. If you can see the spring but the spring tab is partially obscured, then it is likely sitting in it's pocket. My bet is it is the former condition since you mentioned the rifle did fire thus the bolt head locking lugs are properly orientated.

Rifleman, I too was interested in proper lubrication of these rifles and have an opinion on this matter. I am not a tribologist, but worked with one while a test engineer working on the space shuttle's main engine. Upon receipt of my early 81, which function-fired fine, I noticed how all components lacked any form of lubrication. During disassembly of the barrel jacket, I was horrified that everything inside was covered in rust. I cleaned everything up with mineral spirits and ScotchBrite and then spray painted everything, not exposed when assembled, with CRC Dry Moly Lube (# 03084). For the inside surface of the barrel jacket, I sprayed Gunk Industrial Chain Lube w/ Moly. For the action, I used a few drops of synthetic "way oil", used on machine tools, but any good "gun oil" would be quite similar in function and performance. Both of the spray products are available from your friendly Napa Auto Parts store. I'm sure if you asked a hundred gun cranks what their favorite lubrication method is, you'd get a 100 good answers...except for those that believe WD-40 is good for everything that ails man or machinery. :D

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Phyrbird
Posts: 874
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:53 pm

Re: Firsy attempt: not enough lubing?

Post by Phyrbird » Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:33 pm

Again, Browning gun oil; cause it doesn't evaporate after 3months.
Tribologist :!: :!: :shock: I know what it means.... Yea verily we have another Geek in our midst :lol:
Not just me. :D
Phyrbird
SOKY

Rifleman
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:07 pm

Re: Firsy attempt: not enough lubing?

Post by Rifleman » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:34 am

Well, I had to look up what a 'Tribologist' was, although I sort of suspected what it might be in the way 'greg' used it in his post. Guess according to what the definition states it is, I've been a amateur one for many years with my guns, vehicles, and the 19 years I was a heavy equipment operator when it relates to the friction and lubrication of parts moving between each other. 'greg', your method of lubrication were interesting. The barrel on my first 81 (ie the one I posted with having problems with) was spotted in rust here and there, had a slimy red ooze over a lot of it from oil/rust. Cleaned and polished it up and lubed it with a synthetic grease that tolerates low/high temps. I greased area's within the action with the same where grease was needed and since I still have half a can of Sperm Whale oil I got from Brownell's years ago when still available, I oiled a drop here and there where needed. Have always had good results with it, even in cold temps. Used to use it in my Colt Trooper revolver when serving as a LEO for 21 yrs and never had any problems. Fucntions fine and well now, need to go to my post where I posted all of the "woe's" I was having with it and advise the Rx and results I've had with it. Just haven't taken the time. :)

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