Remington spanner wrench Project ** pic heavy

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81police
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Remington spanner wrench Project ** pic heavy

Post by 81police » Thu May 21, 2009 4:19 pm

I thought I'd fill you guys in on a current project. I have undertook the task of making a very limited number of factory model 8 spanner wrenches (Remington part # 107) from an original provided by Bob Creamer. The original wrenches, which only a couple are known to exist today, were stamped and blued and can be found in Ch. 13 of Henwood's book. These reproductions began as a strip of 1050 spring steel. In the following pictures I'll give y'all a run down of the reverse engineering/duplication process following my good machinist friend Cecil. I am sorry guys, these will not be for sale as per agreement with the owner.

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Here we are using a hydraulic surface grinder to bring the spring steel down to the desired thickness. The original wrenches are .082", these reproductions are .087". We did this to help differentiate them from the originals and provide a little more rigidity.

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The next step was matching the dimensions of the original wrench. This we did using an optical comparator, time, and lots of patience. Everything was drawn up in MasterCam.

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After tack welding the spring steel together, an EDM small hole drill was used to get started. The spanner wrench program was uploaded into the wire EDM, the brass threaded, and the cutting began.


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Here are the post cut wrenches. The next step is to form the ends of the bushing wrench and smooth out the tips of the barrel nut spanner. If nothing breaks I'll be back with an update...TO BE CONTINUED!
Cam


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ChopperDoc
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Re: Remington spanner wrench Project ** pic heavy

Post by ChopperDoc » Mon May 25, 2009 9:11 pm

Too bad they are not for sale. Would be handy.

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Re: Remington spanner wrench Project ** pic heavy

Post by 35Rem » Tue May 26, 2009 9:17 am

Would be nice to have this tool available. Could it be stamped "Not Original" or something to preclude it from being passed off as a "fake"? maybe a current date stamp, or "Made in China"!!! :mrgreen:
War Eagle!

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Re: Remington spanner wrench Project ** pic heavy

Post by 81police » Wed May 27, 2009 1:45 pm

We made some more progress last night. We have completed the spanner wrench end by rounding out the tips to the same dimensions as the original wrench. Tested each individually with an old barrel nut and they all fit perfect. Moving right along!

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P.S. - Chopper / 35Rem, if y'all are looking for just the spanner wrench we've found this one works pretty good...

http://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgw ... es/6130019
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Re: Remington spanner wrench Project ** pic heavy

Post by TNyoteboy » Sat May 30, 2009 6:05 pm

Looks great

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Re: Remington spanner wrench Project ** pic heavy

Post by 81police » Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:48 am

We put in about 2 hours last night lining out the final steps of these wrenches. Instead of bending the bushing wrench ends 90 degrees (that would be too easy !) we matched the forming radius of the original bushing wrench ends, cut a forming die block to match that radius, and now are nearly ready to form the ends. Each wrench will be pinned to the block then formed and after that they'll go back to the EDM machine for some final cutting. On the home stretch!

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Re: Remington spanner wrench Project ** pic heavy

Post by 81police » Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:00 pm

One step closer!

Here the forming die block is being drilled and reamed for the installation of dow pins. This will keep the wrenches secure while forming the bushing ears.


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Here's the finalized forming block and a wrench ready to be formed with the original wrench for comparison.

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Nothing fancy on the forming, we simply put the die block in a press and tapped the ears with a rawhide hammer. Since the ears are long, the next step is to cut the bushing ears to match the overall length of the originals. After that, deburing, polishing, and blueing and I'll be thankful to be done!

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Re: Remington spanner wrench Project ** pic heavy

Post by 81police » Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:46 pm

I got the wrenches back from Mid-South Metallurgical today, they have been heat treated to Rockwell 43 like good tool steel. They're a little discolored but no heavy scaling, should clean up nicely!

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Re: Remington spanner wrench Project ** pic heavy

Post by 81police » Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:36 am

some stainless steel buffing compound and a cloth wheel and these are polishing up great

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Re: Remington spanner wrench Project ** pic heavy

Post by 81police » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:33 pm

Project complete! The wrenches have been hot caustic blued and turned out fantastic...although the picture doesn't do them justice. They are a very close match of the originals.

I have to praise David R. Chicoine (http://www.oldwestgunsmith.com) for his work choosing the appropriate blue and doing an incredible job. I highly recommend his services to anyone in need of any type of blue or gun work. Check his website out
!

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Re: Remington spanner wrench Project ** pic heavy

Post by jack1653 » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:40 pm

Hey Cam,

Good Job. I know you have to be very pleased to see the project completed.

I am still expermenting with finding a suitable substitute for the nut removal. I have the Winchester wrench and it is okay. You may have seen my latest posting where I have attempted a different approach that works pretty darn easy and doesnt leave any marks on the nut like the Winchester wrench does.

Thanks for sharing the pictures.

Jack

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Re: Remington spanner wrench Project ** pic heavy

Post by JJ Roberts » Tue May 10, 2011 2:23 am

I used my spanner wrench for the first time last week and the tips on the wrench are now buggered up.Has anyone else had this problem? J.J.Roberts

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Re: Remington spanner wrench Project ** pic heavy

Post by 81police » Tue May 10, 2011 6:58 am

JJ,

The wrench you have is not the same as the ones made from this thread. You probably got yours from Circle B Ranch who made some reproductions as well. I believe his were heat treated in a similar fashion to these. Did you have a stubborn barrel jacket bushing? I'd just email Bob, he's always a pleasure to deal with.
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Re: Remington spanner wrench Project ** pic heavy

Post by JJ Roberts » Tue May 10, 2011 2:20 pm

Cam,I don't think this wrench was heat treated,the two tips are buggered.Before I try to loosen anything on a gun I use a penetrating formula called BP Blaster,let it set and then loosen the part with out any problem.I'm just going to fix the wrench and heat treat it.J.J.

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Re: Remington spanner wrench Project ** pic heavy

Post by kenhwind » Tue May 10, 2011 8:26 pm

There was one of these Model 8-81 spanners for sale on the net. I believe it was marked CBR, and looked like a decent product to me.

I used to make my own shotgun forend spanners. I'd cut them out with a plasma cutting panto-graph machine, and clean them up on a vertical beltsander, and bend the ends, but these usually don't need to be heat treated.

We got lucky on the last Model 81 cause it came apart kind of easily.

Me I'd like to have a correct spanner, just to have one, but I'm sure I could make one as I was a metal fabricator for many years making custom parts for yachts out of alum ss and steel.
KEN

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Remington Reproduction Spanner Wrench & Takedown Proceedures

Post by remcrazy » Thu May 12, 2011 8:24 pm

The reproduction CBR spanner wrenches are heat treated and oil quenched for hardness/temper. This is what causes them to take on the blue/black appearance. They are not blued. These little spanners are not produced for misuse or abuse beyond their capabilities. Even the "real deal" Remington spanner wrenches were not meant for such, thus quite short lived unfortunately. Remington had problems early on with breakage, bending, etc. from misuse. Please remember, these are small thin steel tools and unlike a beefy Husky or Craftsmen type crescent wrench meant for serious business. This is why there are no Remington wrenches available, they all broke!

I know precisely how much these small spanner wrenches can take prior to bending, breaking etc. as I have put them through a rigorous testing process and had others do the same prior to releasing them. We pounded on them with mallets, hammers and used abusive force on the little nub for the barrel nut. Yes, they "will" break, bend and become damaged with undue force applied.

Let's use a few scenarios as a guidline and/or comparison: Using a ballpeen hammer for a job meant for a sledge hammer! The use of a sledge hammer to punch out a drift pin from a Remington Model 8 trigger guard, or use of a standard screwdriver blade to remove a slotted screw from your trigger guard! You can imagine what the outcome will be, disaster!

The spanner wrench is not a cureall and is not intended as such. Personally, I refer to it as more a novelty item for display, even though it does work as intended under the right conditions. The spanner wrench works fine as long as the nut/bushing have had care and cleaning over the years and are not rusted, frozen or seized from dirt and hardened oils. We soon forget, the majority of these Remington Model 8's and 81's have never been cleaned or apart! When you combine the years of use with their being subject to dirt, moisture, rain, old oils, grease, mud, etc.; this causes the threads to seize up and freeze in place. I have found that thoroughly soaking the parts for a realistic time period, will help. Sometimes this requires several days up to as long as a full week just to get the crud barrier to soften up enough to break the threads free.

In one instance, I soaked the end of the barrel assembly of a 1920's Model 8 for over seven days. This rifle was so used and abused, obviously had never been apart let alone likely never had the bore cleaned in it's life time! I proceeded to experiment with the spanner wrench using careful steady pressure. Nothing budged, not even a fraction! I then proceeded to use the Pro Tool set. The 12" long solid steel handles gave great leverage and the nut broke free, even though it took a great deal of force. After removing the nut, I then removed the barrel tube from the shroud assembly. I now set the bushing tool in place and used the same careful technique and broke it free. I used a heavy leather glove and spun the bushing out carefully catching all the internal parts in my hand. After inspecting the threads on both the nut and bushing, I was amazed that the week long soaking did vertually nothing in penetration or lubricating the old crud, it was vertually bone dry. It was a great test for the Pro Tools ability and I use them all the time. Honestly, they have yet to let me down in any take down situation. I'm not trying to sell anyone a tool, just furnishing factual information that the right tool definately handles the job. It should be duley noted that the Pro Tools work in reverse of the spanner wrench. The barrel nut must be removed first, the barrel pulled out, then the bushing removed!

Ok, now back to the spanner wrench! The proper way to use the spanner is as follows: The spanner portion has a radiused "Y" type yoke if you will. If the bushing nut is not seized, it was intended to be loosened first! The yoke fits fairly snuggly around the barrel nut and the two prongs into the bushing slots. With "careful" and "steady" pressure try and free the bushing first! Do not remove the barrel bushing at this time, this comes later. Once free, set the tool on the barrel nut and proceed in same careful manner with steady pressure. Do not attempt the take down by removing the barrel nut first, this is incorrect! The barrel nut helps provide the leverage with the spanner wrench in loosening the bushing! By doing so, you will have far less problems of slippage if any and gain the much needed control over the take down proceedure. This is how they were intended to be used.

With the barrel nut fully removed, the barrel tube may be pulled out from the rear at the receiver end. Proceed with extreme caution as you slowy turn the barrel bushing out as contents are under spring tension. Make sure you use a gloved hand or heavy shop towel to cover over the bushing as it breaks free and the parts want to fly out. Be sure you have captured all the components and not allow them to fly across the room! There are 5 components: the barrel bushing, barrel nut washer, main spring, recoil spring case & buffer spring. In all, 6 components counting the barrel nut!

At this point one can clean and inspect all the components for wear, damage, corrosion etc. Once satisfied everything is up to par, lightly oil all the components and carefully use the sequence in reverse to put back together. The toughest part is compressing the spring and getting the bushing threaded correctly. You do not want to cross thread the bushing at this point, that will ruin your day! Take your time, be patient and you will see that it is not at all too difficult to service these old 8's and 81's .

I've had many ask what type of clamp device or system to use, or what is available to use. Actually, there is no set clamp device or system specifically made for the Model 8's and 81's that I'm aware of. Many use homemade devices to aid in the takedown. Please note, that no matter what you decide to use, should be made up to keep your valuable rifle well protected from any/all damages! I have found the best method is to leave the rifle together and place the butt stock between my feet and the barrel assembly between my legs. This gives full control over what I'm doing. Once you have the bushing loosened and free, proceed with the above instructions. At some point you will have to take down the barrel assembly from the receiver and back together for the next step, then apart again for one last time. Otherwise, you have to figure out a way to clamp up the rear of the barrel shroud assembly in a vise or similar and still run the same proceedures. You're more likely to have the assembly pop out of the clamping device and/or damage it. The thing to bear in mind is always take your time, follow proper proceedures and do it right the first time.

I hope this information is helpful to one and all. I only wish to pass on to others what I have learned over the years. I appreciate any/all information others may have to pass on to myself and the rest of the Remington community from their experiences and expertise!

Kindest regards to all!

Remcrazy




kenhwind wrote:There was one of these Model 8-81 spanners for sale on the net. I believe it was marked CBR, and looked like a decent product to me.

I used to make my own shotgun forend spanners. I'd cut them out with a plasma cutting panto-graph machine, and clean them up on a vertical beltsander, and bend the ends, but these usually don't need to be heat treated.

We got lucky on the last Model 81 cause it came apart kind of easily.

Me I'd like to have a correct spanner, just to have one, but I'm sure I could make one as I was a metal fabricator for many years making custom parts for yachts out of alum ss and steel.
Last edited by remcrazy on Sun May 22, 2011 12:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Remington spanner wrench Project ** pic heavy

Post by 81police » Fri May 13, 2011 1:28 pm

This is probably the best barrel assembly takedown explanation I've come across. Thanks Bob you did a fine job! (We should make a short video tutorial)

Now I never did a lot of testing with the wrenches I made, but I would agree that the design is pretty weak and not up to the rigors of breaking free stubborn jacket bushings. In fact as a testament, the original Remington wrench we used for matching actually had a slightly bent ear from overtorquing on a jacket bushing.

Really the best option for taking down old, crusty 8/81 barrel assemblies, that I've seen, is that Pro Takedown tool set CBR makes. It's usually on Gunbroker.com
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Re: Remington spanner wrench Project ** pic heavy

Post by Adam Lee » Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:15 am

Of course, the rare Belgian FN 1900 tool would be the ultimate replica tool for the Model 8 and 81 fans!

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images courtesy the Great Model 8 & 81 website, of course!

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Re: Remington spanner wrench Project ** pic heavy

Post by jack1653 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:07 am

Hey Adam,

That is one fine looking tool! Is this a picture or do you have one of these tools? Do you have any specifications for this tool? Thank you for sharing your pictures.

Regards,

jack1653

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Re: Remington spanner wrench Project ** pic heavy

Post by Adam Lee » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:27 am

jack1653 wrote:Hey Adam,

That is one fine looking tool! Is this a picture or do you have one of these tools? Do you have any specifications for this tool? Thank you for sharing your pictures.

Regards,

jack1653
Thanks for also enjoying the "ultimate Model 8 tool" - these images came directly from the Great Model 8 website - I believe I tried to give credit below the images.

OK, here's the link to this tool and its history - designed or at least made by FN for their model 1900 licensed Model 8.
http://thegreatmodel8.remingtonsociety. ... ge_id=1562

Jack, my idea is to collaborate with my dad (a former machinist, as well as professional engineer) and see if we can't make our own tool similar to this.

Will keep you posted! I am loving my new/old 8, thanks to Roger. I will be snapping detail pics hopefully today, as I am in the process of stripping it down to the bone. I am all about documentation, back with my Finn Mosin Nagant and various Kar98k's I really enjoy the research.

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Re: Remington spanner wrench Project ** pic heavy

Post by jack1653 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:03 pm

Hey Adam,

I was just excited to see the tool and didn't clearly read your post. Sorry. :oops: If you are successful in your efforts to duplicate the tool, I would be interested in buying one.

Regards,

jack1653

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Re: Remington spanner wrench Project ** pic heavy

Post by Roger » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:58 pm

Hey adam,
Me too ! I have the pro tool set but I would really like to own one of those FN1900 replica tools. Please keep us informed.
Thanks,
Roger
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Re: Remington spanner wrench Project ** pic heavy

Post by 81police » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:50 pm

The only existing FN take-down tool (pictured above) that I know, of is owned by a collector-friend of mine in Germany.
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Re: Remington spanner wrench Project ** pic heavy

Post by Adam Lee » Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:17 pm

81police wrote:The only existing FN take-down tool (pictured above) that I know, of is owned by a collector-friend of mine in Germany.
Cam,

I am glad you posted the example pics. From those, it isn't impossible to recreate something along the same lines - certainly not identical, but quite similar in function.

Should this dream ever come to fruition, I will be blabbing about it all over the place!

Adam
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Re: Remington spanner wrench Project ** pic heavy

Post by In The Ten Ring » Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:10 pm

I had just noticed the spanner wrench for sale on gunbroker.

If someone did produce a tool such as the last one on here "the ultimate spanner tool" I would buy one. I would pay up to $200.00 for such a quality tool, IF it was really that high of quality and precise fit.

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Re: Remington spanner wrench Project ** pic heavy

Post by sighthound » Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:32 pm

The spanner wrench on gun broker is made by member remcrazy and will be top quality as is all his parts and tools. Jerry

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Re: Remington spanner wrench Project ** pic heavy

Post by Mushiii » Wed May 23, 2018 7:44 am

Are these for sale? well not good too bad!

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Re: Remington spanner wrench Project ** pic heavy

Post by 81police » Wed May 23, 2018 12:54 pm

Mushiii wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 7:44 am
Are these for sale? well not good too bad!
These are not for sale. Thanks.
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