Police Model 8 - but very unique!
Police Model 8 - but very unique!
This is an authentic Peace Officer's Equip. Co. Model 8 in .30Rem. I'll post a little history on this rifle later, but for now be wow'd!
Cam Woodall
Site Co-Administrator
Site Co-Administrator
Re: Police Model 8 - but very unique!
Hey Cam,
Hot Diggitty!! Another variation. I can't believe that someone would take the 15 POE and cut it down. It brings a tear to my eye. I'll be waiting for the rest of the story. I have to ask if there is any possible way that this would be for sale?
Jack
Hot Diggitty!! Another variation. I can't believe that someone would take the 15 POE and cut it down. It brings a tear to my eye. I'll be waiting for the rest of the story. I have to ask if there is any possible way that this would be for sale?
Jack
Re: Police Model 8 - but very unique!
So this rifle is owned by Terry, a relative of a good friend. The story as told by the owner goes like this...
"Mine is chambered for .30 Remington and was produced in April 1935. It actually belonged to my wife’s father rather than mine. My father-in-law, Darril, obtained it sometime around 1950 through his wife’s uncle who was a policeman in Columbia, MO. I surmise that the police department was replacing their older rifles. Darril bought it for deer hunting, so the 15-round magazine was needlessly long and awkward. I believe he had it shortened by a competent gunsmith, because the work is obviously good quality, and the mag now holds six rounds.
Although he was an avid bird hunter, Darril didn’t hunt deer any more when I first met him in 1969. I knew he had a “deer rifle”, but I don’t remember ever seeing the Model 8 until it was given to me after he died in 1997. I have long been a mild gun enthusiast, but I didn’t pay much attention to this rifle after a first glance. Back then I was not aware of the model 8’s at all and didn’t even notice this was a Remington. I thought it was some kind of obsolete foreign military rifle due to the detachable magazine and thick barrel shroud. In Jan ‘08 I was updating my firearms list and took a closer look at this rifle to figure out what it was. I was surprised to see it was a Remington civilian rather than military rifle, and I decided to clean it but couldn’t figure out how to take it apart. That led me to an internet search for info and I learned a lot! At first I was puzzled that my rifle was different from the standard Model 8, but then became thrilled to learn it was one of the rarer POEC conversions. I realize that the magazine modification detracts from that somewhat, but on the other hand my 6-round version might just be one of a kind!
About the magazine itself...
"This evening I got out my magazine to examine the pieces more closely. The new hole with the 7 marked beside it is smaller than the others. It is 5/32” dia vs. 3/16” dia for the other three. The two parallel holes near the bottom of the cut-off piece are marked “15” on both sides, whereas the upper holes are marked “4” and “7” only on the left side. Although it was done neatly, the 4 and 7 are definitely scratched on and are larger than the stamped 15s. The marking that reads “Peace Officer Equipment Co., St. Joseph MO, Pat. Pend.” is on the lower section that was cut off, left side.
I think it is more likely that the 4th hole, the “4” and the “7” were added by the Columbia police rather than the gunsmith who shortened the magazine. It is obvious by looking at it that the small hole marked “7” is too close to the bottom of the shortened upper portion to be a functional indicator, and I doubt the gunsmith would have drilled and marked that hole before he cut it in two. There is no way the spring and follower could be compressed enough to clear that hole, which I verified by loading the magazine with the six rounds it will hold. When fully loaded the follower was still above that new hole, and it is not possible to get a 7th round in. When four rounds are loaded, the upper hole marked “4” is still clear, but becomes blocked by the lowest round when the fifth cartridge is loaded. So, I can tell when I have four rounds or less in the mag, or if there are at least five in there."
Many thanks to Terry for allowing us to share this intersting story and pictures with forum members. You've definitely got a one-of-a-kind rifle!
"Mine is chambered for .30 Remington and was produced in April 1935. It actually belonged to my wife’s father rather than mine. My father-in-law, Darril, obtained it sometime around 1950 through his wife’s uncle who was a policeman in Columbia, MO. I surmise that the police department was replacing their older rifles. Darril bought it for deer hunting, so the 15-round magazine was needlessly long and awkward. I believe he had it shortened by a competent gunsmith, because the work is obviously good quality, and the mag now holds six rounds.
Although he was an avid bird hunter, Darril didn’t hunt deer any more when I first met him in 1969. I knew he had a “deer rifle”, but I don’t remember ever seeing the Model 8 until it was given to me after he died in 1997. I have long been a mild gun enthusiast, but I didn’t pay much attention to this rifle after a first glance. Back then I was not aware of the model 8’s at all and didn’t even notice this was a Remington. I thought it was some kind of obsolete foreign military rifle due to the detachable magazine and thick barrel shroud. In Jan ‘08 I was updating my firearms list and took a closer look at this rifle to figure out what it was. I was surprised to see it was a Remington civilian rather than military rifle, and I decided to clean it but couldn’t figure out how to take it apart. That led me to an internet search for info and I learned a lot! At first I was puzzled that my rifle was different from the standard Model 8, but then became thrilled to learn it was one of the rarer POEC conversions. I realize that the magazine modification detracts from that somewhat, but on the other hand my 6-round version might just be one of a kind!
About the magazine itself...
"This evening I got out my magazine to examine the pieces more closely. The new hole with the 7 marked beside it is smaller than the others. It is 5/32” dia vs. 3/16” dia for the other three. The two parallel holes near the bottom of the cut-off piece are marked “15” on both sides, whereas the upper holes are marked “4” and “7” only on the left side. Although it was done neatly, the 4 and 7 are definitely scratched on and are larger than the stamped 15s. The marking that reads “Peace Officer Equipment Co., St. Joseph MO, Pat. Pend.” is on the lower section that was cut off, left side.
I think it is more likely that the 4th hole, the “4” and the “7” were added by the Columbia police rather than the gunsmith who shortened the magazine. It is obvious by looking at it that the small hole marked “7” is too close to the bottom of the shortened upper portion to be a functional indicator, and I doubt the gunsmith would have drilled and marked that hole before he cut it in two. There is no way the spring and follower could be compressed enough to clear that hole, which I verified by loading the magazine with the six rounds it will hold. When fully loaded the follower was still above that new hole, and it is not possible to get a 7th round in. When four rounds are loaded, the upper hole marked “4” is still clear, but becomes blocked by the lowest round when the fifth cartridge is loaded. So, I can tell when I have four rounds or less in the mag, or if there are at least five in there."
Many thanks to Terry for allowing us to share this intersting story and pictures with forum members. You've definitely got a one-of-a-kind rifle!
Cam Woodall
Site Co-Administrator
Site Co-Administrator
Re: Police Model 8 - but very unique!
Indeed, great fun to know - thanks for sharing it with us.
Though defensive violence will always be “a sad necessity” in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men. - St. Augustine
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terysmitch
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:49 pm
- Location: Springdale, Arkansas
Re: Police Model 8 - but very unique!
Sorry Jack, but this rifle is not for sale. Terry
[i]Terry Mitchell[/i]
Re: Police Model 8 - but very unique!
Hey Terry,
I certainly understand your not wanting to part with it. I never know until I ask so I hope you understand. However, if you ever do decide to part with it, give me a call. I won't have any trouble adding it to the collection!!!
I thank you for sharing the story with Cam and posting the pictures. I always like seeing stories about these rifles and yours is a unique one. Last year this time I was seeking the 15-shot POE's for a project. I didn't think I would ever find any but ended up with enough to complete the project. You can read about it here on the forum under the heading "VerSchneider Conversions". Thanks again Terrry.
Jack
I certainly understand your not wanting to part with it. I never know until I ask so I hope you understand. However, if you ever do decide to part with it, give me a call. I won't have any trouble adding it to the collection!!!
I thank you for sharing the story with Cam and posting the pictures. I always like seeing stories about these rifles and yours is a unique one. Last year this time I was seeking the 15-shot POE's for a project. I didn't think I would ever find any but ended up with enough to complete the project. You can read about it here on the forum under the heading "VerSchneider Conversions". Thanks again Terrry.
Jack