1908 Model 8 with 1935 jacket: my first 8

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Adam Lee
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1908 Model 8 with 1935 jacket: my first 8

Post by Adam Lee »

Friends,

This will serve as a thread for me to show and tell my new/old Model 8, which I recently purchased from a fellow "society member" on the forum. Thanks, Roger!

I don't even have a single good picture yet, as I haven't had time, but will continue to post images and observations as time permits. My intent is to focus my efforts on the complete disassembly, cleaning, and care of this rifle including documenting any work towards repairs or upgrades I decide to make.

For example, the very fancy and high-quality Williams rear sight has already been carefully removed, and will be photographed and images posted. As I work with my dad to select and either make or locate appropriately-sized filler screws for the extra sight mounting holes in the receiver, that process will be documented for example.

I posted yesterday about my first troubles with reattaching the barrel assembly after taking the gun apart a few times - and along the way, learned some quirks about the process. Just like my Browning-designed Savage 720 shotgun, the innards are very much alike, and I am sure to have a great time examining this rifle in detail.

It is a 1908 rifle, with 1935 barrel jacket. Not sure what I will find along the way, but it is in great shape and a shooter which will be used and not just hung on the wall. In fact, I will be learning the ropes of reloading in the near future, and plan on "rolling my own" .35 to make target practice as well as hunting more affordable.

OK, that's it for now - I will be back to continue the story of another old Remington that can still put in a day's solid work!

Adam
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keltg
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Re: 1908 Model 8 with 1935 jacket: my first 8

Post by keltg »

look forward to following you documentary on your experiences with your model 8.
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81police
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Re: 1908 Model 8 with 1935 jacket: my first 8

Post by 81police »

No pictures?!
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Adam Lee
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Re: 1908 Model 8 with 1935 jacket: my first 8

Post by Adam Lee »

81police wrote:No pictures?!
right, Cam. No pictures. Should I have put a disclaimer in the subject line? I know, I know....."if I don't see any pictures, it didn't really happen...."

soon enough.....

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Re: 1908 Model 8 with 1935 jacket: my first 8

Post by imfuncity »

No weapon pictures son!? Whoa... do we band him now or give him a second chance? (The school teacher gig had him on shaky ground, now this begging for time thing!) :shock:
Though defensive violence will always be “a sad necessity” in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men. - St. Augustine

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Adam Lee
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Re: 1908 Model 8 with 1935 jacket: my first 8

Post by Adam Lee »

Thanks for your patience, guys, while I manage to find the time to take some very low-quality, yet somewhat focused pictures at 5:30 am! I do mean that in a sarcastic tone. :mrgreen:

OK, so you guys are not unlike 6th graders in terms of patience, I will grant you that; so why don't yall play "Where's Waldo" and tell me what you see in the following pictures?

*hints:
1. the barrel has disappeared!
2. the 1908 (10221) rifle s/n does not match the barrel jacket s/n (63809)
3. there are 3 pairs of extra holes drilled into the gun - locate them!

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Adam Lee
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Re: 1908 Model 8 with 1935 jacket: my first 8

Post by Adam Lee »

Maybe this picture helps out for those who can't see too well.....
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And this might help, too.
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keltg
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Re: 1908 Model 8 with 1935 jacket: my first 8

Post by keltg »

nice looking piece, even with the extra holes.
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81police
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Re: 1908 Model 8 with 1935 jacket: my first 8

Post by 81police »

that's going to make a fine shooting rifle!!! ...oh wait I spoke without raising my hand first :lol:
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Re: 1908 Model 8 with 1935 jacket: my first 8

Post by Adam Lee »

81police wrote:that's going to make a fine shooting rifle!!! ...oh wait I spoke without raising my hand first :lol:
I forgive you, Cam.

"more better" pics to follow.
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Adam Lee
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Re: 1908 Model 8 with 1935 jacket: my first 8

Post by Adam Lee »

that Williams sight is one fugly mofo.

sorry, Roger, that is going to be kept in my "barter box" until I locate a Lymans peep or an OG jacket sight.

'nuff said for now......dang did my 6th graders ruin my day today.

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Re: 1908 Model 8 with 1935 jacket: my first 8

Post by ROBOPUMP »

I hope you plan on adding a barrel before you shoot it.

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Roger
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Re: 1908 Model 8 with 1935 jacket: my first 8

Post by Roger »

Adam, the williams peeps are really ugly,but very user friendly. They make sighting in an easy process . I have two others in my parts cabinet myself though. It was a parts gun,non functioning,when I found it and i turned it into a real functioning unit. I hope your plans work out with it. I also hope they include shooting it, because it's a real good shooter.
I will look up what loads it seems to like best for you when i get time.I have too much water under the bridge since I shot it last to remember what loads it shot well. Good luck!!
Thanks,
Roger
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Adam Lee
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Re: 1908 Model 8 with 1935 jacket: my first 8

Post by Adam Lee »

Roger wrote:Adam, the williams peeps are really ugly,but very user friendly. They make sighting in an easy process . I have two others in my parts cabinet myself though. It was a parts gun,non functioning,when I found it and i turned it into a real functioning unit. I hope your plans work out with it. I also hope they include shooting it, because it's a real good shooter.
I will look up what loads it seems to like best for you when i get time.I have too much water under the bridge since I shot it last to remember what loads it shot well. Good luck!!
Thanks,
Roger
I appreciate your comments, Roger. I don't plan on making the Williams sight disappear from my life; I only want to have the ability to swap between using that one and either the original "buckhorn" rear sight (if that's what they are called) or a typical folding peep sight.
With the filler set screws I am going to either make or locate, the 2 upper mounting holes will be plugged so the humpback receiver will have the more traditional shape. I just am real partial to the Browning humpback receiver profile. A classic look.
Don't worry, this is going to be a shooting gun - I want to make this my focus rifle for learning to reload centerfire ammo, and create custom lower-power loads for punching paper as well as practical loads for punching down beasts.

Adam

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81police
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Re: 1908 Model 8 with 1935 jacket: my first 8

Post by 81police »

I'm partial to the humpback receiver as well. Here's a picture of my favorite sight setup on a Model 8 or 81. Member 2pversters turned me on to it, I think he sets up all his guns like this.

The only drawback is finding the sights and affording them, but basically this setup gives you 3 different sight pictures. You can use the tang mounted peep sight w/ the rear sight folded flat. You can then fold the tang peep sight down and use either the semi-buckhorn blade, or fold that down and use the express style blade (my favorite).

Lot of things you can do with these, best of luck!
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Re: 1908 Model 8 with 1935 jacket: my first 8

Post by imfuncity »

I agree with Roger, the Williams and the similar Redfield to be much more accurate and user friendly then the tang sites.

BTW where did you find 6th grader zombie targets? Or are you just using your fellow member pictures? :lol:
Though defensive violence will always be “a sad necessity” in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men. - St. Augustine

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Adam Lee
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Re: 1908 Model 8 with 1935 jacket: my first 8

Post by Adam Lee »

Cam,

The flip peep sight you show on your carbine that replaced the original buckhorn sight on top of the barrel jacket was one of my first thoughts for my rifle. I am reminded of one of my favorite guns, my first gun, when I was a kid on the farm - a Ruger 10/22. The folding peep was quite similar and the only thing different, was the Ruger came pre-tapped for a suitable scope mount.

I've seen the various examples of all types of possible sights for the 8/81 on eBay recently. Going to keep this on my radar!

On another topic, this weekend I located the time and the basic tools that helped me remove the barrel jacket bushing, springs, etc. and inspected the empty jacket tube. I had no problem with loosening the jacket bushing, just as I had no troubles with the barrel nut. Roger, I am sure this was in part due to the fact that you had replaced these parts during your very successful efforts to make this gun shoot properly!

The more I dig into this rifle, the more I appreciate John Browning's design. I find myself taking out my Savage 720 shotgun, and doing lots of side-by-side comparisons. The rifle and the shotgun are like brothers in the same family. At some point, I will undoubtedly post some pictures of both of them together, like fellow forum member Pitchy did.
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Re: 1908 Model 8 with 1935 jacket: my first 8

Post by Adam Lee »

Did some more investigation and made the following observations:

1. receiver and trigger guard assembly s/n 10221; ca. 1908 production with 4,685 units
2. buttstock s/n 45731; ca. 1921 production with 1,113 units
3. barrel jacket s/n 63809; ca. 1930 production with 2,557 units
4. magazine box s/n 12281; ca. 1908 (same as receiver and TG)

The production data was sourced from the Great Model 8 website - thanks for the research work!

I found it interesting that the annual production of these rifles was so low, compared to the mass-produced military weapons Remington was building during the Great War period, 1914-1918.

The Russian Model 1891 Mosin-Nagant rifle
The British Pattern 1914 rifle
The Remington Model 1914 "rolling block"
The French Model 1907-1915 Berthier

However, after learning more of Remington's history and development as a powerful arms manufacturing giant at the time, it seems clear that Remington was just as interested in acquiring stable government gun contracts as any military defense contractor does today.

Now, I've got no hankering to collect a French Berthier or a Model 1914 rolling block, but I'm always on the vigil for Remington manufactured Mosin Nagants and Pattern 1914's.

Adam
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Re: 1908 Model 8 with 1935 jacket: my first 8

Post by Adam Lee »

It's pictures time! Break out the beverages, and take a peek.

Roger, FYI yes I DID find your initials hidden in the buttstock. What's up with that? :lol:

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Re: 1908 Model 8 with 1935 jacket: my first 8

Post by Adam Lee »

Here are more follow-up pictures. Yes, I got motivated today - parts of Virginia got hammered with snow, our county was one of many in a state of emergency. School was closed - yeah, baby! (remember I am a loyal 6th grade teacher, and I would never ever wish for a snow day.... :mrgreen: )

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Re: 1908 Model 8 with 1935 jacket: my first 8

Post by Roger »

Hey Adam, it looks like you're making good progress with your project. To answer your question about my initials, I almost always remove the buttplates on all new pieces I buy. I always put my initials under the buttplates. Also, if you use cold blue, make sure to heat the metal up with a hairdryer before and after applying the solution. I sometimes repeat this process several times on touch up projects. Good luck.
Thanks, Roger
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Re: 1908 Model 8 with 1935 jacket: my first 8

Post by Adam Lee »

As I have been tinkering with my various gun projects, I "imagined" that the buttstock and trigger assembly from a Remington Model 11/Savage 720/Browning A5 might fit to the empty Model 8 receiver - so I'd get an approximation of what a Model 81 would look like.

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I was not surprised that the ~1935 Savage 720 trigger and butt parts would mate right up to the 1908 Model 8 rifle receiver. Even the trigger guard cross screw matched right up.

I'm thinking that gun manufacturers building from Browning's patents had a great deal of commonality - always interesting to notice these details, in my opinion.

As I move forward with my new/old Model 8, I really enjoy taking the time to go over every individual component as I make this my own. The wood parts are in really great shape, and will take a refinish very nicely once I am through with preparation.

Likewise, the metal is quite good to begin with before I remove the old finish down to the white and reblue. The wait was worth it! (I had a bit of a time delay on my end with switching to a new FFL guy here)
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Re: 1908 Model 8 with 1935 jacket: my first 8

Post by Adam Lee »

My Model 8 barrel is marked "Y46" just down from the barrel extension, towards the muzzle. Is there any way to determine the relevance? I am interested in knowing whether this .35 Rem barrel is original to my 1908-manufactured 8.

Roger did a barrel jacket swap to make this gun functional, and it is from 1930, with s/n of 63809.

Ideas?

thanks. Adam
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Re: 1908 Model 8 with 1935 jacket: my first 8

Post by Roger »

Adam,the barrel itself wasn't changed. But I don't know if it was original to the gun
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Adam Lee
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Re: 1908 Model 8 with 1935 jacket: my first 8

Post by Adam Lee »

Roger wrote:Adam,the barrel itself wasn't changed. But I don't know if it was original to the gun
Roger
Roger,

I wasn't giving the impression that the barrel had been swapped during your successful efforts to "put the gun back in play", when you had the jacket replaced...to me, the barrel certainly appears to "fit" this gun in finish and consistent wear patterns.

My question is really this - for Remington barrels and receivers prior to the 1920's and the introduction of the BLACKPOWDERX system of determining build dates, does the "Y46" serve as a lot number, heat treat code, steel supplier code, etc. sort of like the code numbers stamped on M1 Garand and M1 Carbine parts? Or, could the Y46 have a simple Remington part number relevance?

Roger, I think you probably have figured out by now just how ADHD I am with guns and research. Matches how hyper-focused I can get in school planning!

On another note, how do you like the bare wood so far? Don't worry, it's going to look pretty eventually! Also, I do plan on preparing all the metal carefully prior to reblue. Depending on the size of parts I blue, I either warm them up with a little propane torch (when appropriate) prior to the Super Blue, or even use the oven sometimes. Hair dryers have been known to enter in the equation!

I can't wait til summer, when I should have plenty of shooting time and will take pictures of the results. Maybe by then I'll have a decent comparo photo album of a variety of Browning designs in action, and (hopefully) some good paper punching targets to share.
The chance always exists for me to join up with several friends and partake in various hunting events here in Virginia, I'm going to admit it has been MANY years since hunting for me. Like to bag some deer with any of my guns, and help stock my friend's freezer, seems like a worthy cause.

Adam
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Re: 1908 Model 8 with 1935 jacket: my first 8

Post by Roger »

The answer to your question may be buried in J.Henwoods book. Stay tuned and I'll try to look it up. However,my weekend is pretty packed already with a Saturday nite band show and a three day guns how here in town,starting at 5 pm friday. I'll be busy for sure. Never fear tho ,I'll try one of these days to find the answer. Maybe someone else has the answer already?
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Re: 1908 Model 8 with 1935 jacket: my first 8

Post by 81police »

Roger was right, I looked up the markings in Henwood's book and he does mention them. Apparently though whatever the barrel markings mean have been lost in history, at least for now.

"the only unique markings seen to date on barrels have been combinations of letters, or letters and numbers, such as "CMT" and "Y112", and the "1" inside a triangle. Once again, the significance of these marks is unknown" (p.82).

He goes on to list several of the observed markings: Y19, Y21, Y37, Y35, Y52, Y64, Y114, etc. So your guess is as good as anybody's.
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Re: 1908 Model 8 with 1935 jacket: my first 8

Post by Roger »

Thanks for doing the research,Cam,it might have taken me awhile to look it up.
Thanks for your time,
Roger
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Re: 1908 Model 8 with 1935 jacket: my first 8

Post by Adam Lee »

Guys,
I've been out of action for some time, and today's post just updates this fun Model 8 as she stands right now. Nothing fancy - I have not pursued trimming the barrel and jacket into a "carbine length" quite yet. Instead, I wanted to get her shooting sooner rather than later, so I reblued the metal and refinished the lumber. While putting the finish on the gun, I also added the non-original sling loops, and a reproduction 1903 Springfield-style 1-1/4" wide leather sling.
I will try to get back around to visit with 'yall real soon! Wishing everybody the best!

Adam

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81police
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Re: 1908 Model 8 with 1935 jacket: my first 8

Post by 81police »

ready to hunt! :D
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Re: 1908 Model 8 with 1935 jacket: my first 8

Post by imfuncity »

Look like great shooters to me. Go shoot sumpt'n... good for the soul. 8-)
Though defensive violence will always be “a sad necessity” in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men. - St. Augustine

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Re: 1908 Model 8 with 1935 jacket: my first 8

Post by Phyrbird »

Very nice Adam, Congrats. I appreciate you getting beautiful finishes on one of our ladies... 8-)
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Roger
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Re: 1908 Model 8 with 1935 jacket: my first 8

Post by Roger »

Hey Adam,
What an improvement you've made. It makes me feel proud that you cared enuf about this old war horse to bring her all the way back. I only did the first part of it. You really finished the job. Great work, and go blast off some ammo!!!
Thanks for your time
Roger
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Re: 1908 Model 8 with 1935 jacket: my first 8

Post by Adam Lee »

Cam, Mitch, Carl, Roger, et al - thanks for the kind words and welcoming me back!

Roger, this rifle has indeed been a "labor of love" and I am just as glad as you are to see it completed and shooting well. Along the way, I've of course been tinkering with 2, 3 maybe 4 other gun projects at the same time - but this girl was always my key focus. Wanted to do it right, and find different ways to achieve the finished look on the metal as well as the wood furniture.

I will return soon to continue other conversations on the forum - when I am able!

Later, guys!
Adam
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