shooting damn near MOA w/ .300 Savage

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hiltu
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Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:22 pm

shooting damn near MOA w/ .300 Savage

Post by hiltu »

im getting ready to start handloading so i figured id take the almost 2 boxes of factory ammo to the range. 1 is a full box of remington and the other is 12 rounds of Hornady. All i had with me was a sweatshirt and sweatpants from the car to use to steady/lean the gun on. The pants i used for my shoulder and the sweatshirt got rolled up and i rested the forearm on it. I sighted in my weaver v-12 4-12x power scope and set the targets up at 100yds. Shooting remingtons first i could not group to save my life. Turns out it was the weaver side mount base, so i tightened it down. Switching to the hornadys i shoot a 3 round group at 1.375" outside to outside, and subtracting .308" gets my group down to 1.067". I learned 2 things from shooting my rifle today. 1st is that remington brass would jam/fail to eject properly 4 out of 20 rounds chambered while hornady was 0 for 12. I will use hoornady brass solely for reloading. 2nd is that i believe with my made up setup that the gun is more accurate then the shooter, that is that im the limiting factor to tighter groups vice my gun being a piece of junk. All in all, this gun will never see a "for sale" sign or be featured on gunbroker.
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Roger
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Re: shooting damn near MOA w/ .300 Savage

Post by Roger »

I've done alot of reloading w/ 300 sav.. for deer hunting use in my 4 -m-8 s. I've got some pretty accurate starting points for you if you desire any help. I've loaded w/ about 4/5 powders @ about 6 or more bullets w/ extensive testing at the range, in all 4 rifles. Let me know if I can help you in any way.
Thanks for your time,
Roger
Roger
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DWalt
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Re: shooting damn near MOA w/ .300 Savage

Post by DWalt »

When I first got my .300, I was getting failures to eject fairly frequently with any brass (I form my own out of .308 & 7.62 cases). As I related here, I replaced the ejector spring and plunger, no ejection problems afterward.
1" (I guess at 100 yards) is phenomenal. With open sight, mine does 5"-6" 5-shot groups. A much better idea of potential is to shoot 5 - 5 shot groups and average. You don't have to subtract .308 - just measure bullet holes of 2 most distant outside to outside.
hiltu
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Re: shooting damn near MOA w/ .300 Savage

Post by hiltu »

Roger, thanks for the offer. I just purchased a lee handloader. My question right now is what would be a good powder to start loading?


dwalt, i had actually commented on that post. I am thinking about doing it myself. I dont know if im confident in doing it though.
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Roger
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Re: shooting damn near MOA w/ .300 Savage

Post by Roger »

I would start w/imr4064 for 180 gr. Bullets,or 165 gr. Bullets. I would start w/ I Mr 4895 for 150 gr. Bullets.I've had ggood success w/ hornady 160 gr. Ftx bullets @ 4064 powder also. I load w/ rem .180 s,Hornady165 s @ speer150 s.If you don't own a manual, i'd start w/hornady's, and go from there. Stick to their cart. Overall lengths @ start w/ medium power loads @ work up from there. 300 savage can be a real good deer killer@ be pretty accurate as you've already found out. You will eventually find a load that your 81 likes the best. Be patient,do'alot of range time,and you will find the best loading for your rifle. Also one word about these old bores. In a some of my 8/81 s I must shoot a few rds before they will really shoot well. I have no answer as to why, but it's a real observation i've made.
Thanks for your time
Roger
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hiltu
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Re: shooting damn near MOA w/ .300 Savage

Post by hiltu »

do you crimp your bullets on? How about full length resizing vs. Neck sizing? With the lee loader it only neck sizes and im hoping thats enough, or ill purchase a lee handpress. Have you tested bullet depth as far as distance from the landings or even touching the landings? Thanks for all this great info.
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Roger
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Re: shooting damn near MOA w/ .300 Savage

Post by Roger »

I always use bullets w/ a crimp groove, and crimp them firmly. This is due to the recoil of these rifles even in a box mag.I always adhere strictly to trim lengths, and to overall cart. Lengths, cause I'm dealing w/ collectable guns a/ any advantage I might gain from moving my bullets closer to the rifling is not worth blowing up my guns. Also I full length size every ti me because I'm loading for more than one rifle in the same caliber. I've been told that if you're loading for one rifle,that once they've been fire formed once, you don't need to full length size.I've got no experience w/ that system,so I can't say for sure what may happen. Maybe some one else on this forum can help you w/ that. I'm dealing w/ Max. Or near Max. Loadings so I'm very careful. My advice is to start low and work up slowly. Watch carefully for any signs of excess pressure. Don't be afraid to spend plenty of range time. Good luck.
Thanks for your time,
Roger
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DWalt
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Re: shooting damn near MOA w/ .300 Savage

Post by DWalt »

I do not recommend crimping for the M81, and have never had a bullet movement problem in my .300 M81. If you do crimp, make sure that all cases are trimmed to precisely the same length for each reloading session. Otherwise you WILL have problems. Keep in mind that many .30 bullets either do not have a crimping groove, or may have the crimping groove in the wrong location. You must be VERY careful to avoid exceeding the maximum cartridge OAL, or the rounds will not fit into the magazine.

Case stretching has not been evident for me in my M81s, so neck sizing alone should be OK for you. The M8/81 long recoil action lockup is essentially the same as in a bolt action rifle, and is unlike a gas-operated semiautomatic such as the Remington 740 series in which extraction begins while there is still some residual chamber pressure. That advice works if you have only one rifle. If you have several rifles in the same caliber, you should FL resize all cases unless you can somehow segregate them for use in each rifle.
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Roger
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Re: shooting damn near MOA w/ .300 Savage

Post by Roger »

I must respectfully disagree w/ DWalt on the subject of crimping for 300 savage ammo. I will always err on the side of caution when dealing w/ something as dangerous and valuable as a collectable firearm. As w/ any subject there are many opinions for this reloading question. My advice would be to call Hornady,Inc. They're always very helpful when you need reloading advice.
Thanks for your time,
Roger
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hiltu
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Re: shooting damn near MOA w/ .300 Savage

Post by hiltu »

thanks dwalt and roger for your sides to crimping or not. Ill look further into that. On another note ive seen heavy discrepancy with using lighter loads for savage 1899 or 99s. I have also seen one article about reducing loads slightly for the 81 also, "out of respect for their age". Is there any grounds to this??? Im trying to achieve hornady superformance results, 150gr @ 2740fps. If i could get 2675fps i would be content, well as long as its accurate too.
DWalt
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Re: shooting damn near MOA w/ .300 Savage

Post by DWalt »

Why is a collectable firearm dangerous?
hiltu
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Re: shooting damn near MOA w/ .300 Savage

Post by hiltu »

i know this isnt the popular vote but i dont deem my grade "a" joe-blow 81 with a drilled and tapped receiver anything near a collectors gun...
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Roger
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Re: shooting damn near MOA w/ .300 Savage

Post by Roger »

Any gun can be dangerous. Sorry I tried to help
Roger
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hiltu
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Re: shooting damn near MOA w/ .300 Savage

Post by hiltu »

i meant no disrespect roger. I guess i really dont see a reason to limit loads for the 81 as all data acknowledges the limited SAAMI pressure that comes with .300 savage already. Maybe in the late 40s technology, equipment, and quality were limited and thats a cause for reduced loads but disassembling and inspecting my gun, it seems to be "well-built"
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gcp
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Re: shooting damn near MOA w/ .300 Savage

Post by gcp »

I ordered from Midway USA the Lee neck size & crimp dies, and the trimmer. Mine is a 35Rem but non the less I plan to neck size and crimp to err on the side of caution. As Roger has stated there's a bit of recoil there so it's best not to run the risk of failure.

I also ordered Hornady InterLock 200 Grain Round Nose bullets to try out with the most appropriate powder I already have in my stash so I'll report back when I shoot.
gcp
clampdaddy
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Re: shooting damn near MOA w/ .300 Savage

Post by clampdaddy »

My 81's favorite load is 40 grains of IMR 4064 pushing 150 grain Hornady boat tail interlocks. It's not a very fast load but it regulates perfectly on the rear sight steps. It'll hammer the 10" gong at 400 every time if I do my part.

Mine jams quite a bit. Never thought about trying different brass or changing out the ejector spring. I'm pretty handy but to be honest, my 81 is the one gun that I've never taken down to the last nut and bolt. By looking at it I can't figure out how to get the guts out of it and I hate messing with those mushroom headed pins.
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Phyrbird
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Re: shooting damn near MOA w/ .300 Savage

Post by Phyrbird »

DWalt wrote:Why is a collectable firearm dangerous?
My experience (30 years) in Maintenance and Reliability may help with this topic. In the early years of the last century steel metal alloys were not as precise as today's. The hammer blow of firing tends to work harden steels. Sheer age effects the crystalline structure of metals. Scratches and sharp internal corners can become stress cracks. All these are factors in the strength of a firearm.
I am constantly amazed these fine rifles are still in service. J Browning demonstrated a very high level of design and reliability expertise in making these rifles. Many of similar guns are long since shelved due to breakage or brittle materials. It's a credit to JMB we still enjoy hunting and target shooting our collections.
On the topic of reloading I recommend articles by Ken Waters of Handloader mag, he wrote one on 25 Rem and 30 Rem years ago. Detailed load development, testing for pressure signs, accuracy strings, and chronograph records are hallmarks of his research. :ugeek: He even "stretched" the existing boundaries of the 25 Rem. These can be found in his compiled book Pet Loads. As always use this data carefully, ALWAYs cross check against other resources, there are misprints.

I continue to urge our members to err on the side of caution when reloading. It's very cost effective, let's keep it safe. :)
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DWalt
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Re: shooting damn near MOA w/ .300 Savage

Post by DWalt »

Regarding the Model 81, those can be classified as modern rifles. By 1936, when the Model 81 came out, the understanding of metallurgy, heat treatment, and precision machining as applied to firearms manufacture was as good then as it is today. But I might not say that regarding some of the Model 8s from the early 20th century. And seating bullets more deeply in rifle cases does not increase peak chamber pressures, as is incorrectly believed by some to be the case. Most reloading manuals discuss this phenomena.
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