Full Stock Match Rifle

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jack1653
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Full Stock Match Rifle

Post by jack1653 »

Hey Guys,

This project started as a result of conversations with Jerry King, is dedicated to him and has taken over two years to complete. I didn’t know a thing about the FSMR beyond what was in Henwood’s book pages 115-116.

I contacted Bob Brueninger about creating the wood, sling bands and front sight for the FSMR. Everything Bob made came out looking fantastic.

Bob had requested that I send the rifle that I would be using for the project so he could fit the wood to the rifle before I sent it for restoration. When I received the wood, I had very little to do to get everything put together.

The rifle for this project came from my collection. It is period correct with the serial number being within about three hundred digits of the original 14410. The caliber is the same 25-35 as the original. The rifle was a shooter and not a collector. It had buggered screws, dings, scratches and the normal wear and tear that one sees with a well-used rifle.

In February 2013, I carried the rifle and accessories, minus the wood, to Sam Williams in Johnston City, Illinois. Sam’s expertise in restoration was as good as I had experienced from previous work.

I was particularly impressed with the restoration of the Krag sight. It is a 1901 pattern Krag-Jorgensen tangent rear sight that was installed onto the jacket head.

There was one additional issue that neither Bob nor I could really figure out. We did not have any specifications and only the picture on page 115 of Henwood’s book. We did not know how the sling bands were held in place.

I contacted a high school friend, Joe Kester for some advice before final assembly. Joe queried me as to how much space was between the left and right sections when the sling screw was in place and suggested that I tighten the bands tight to the wood to the point of indenting the wood and this would secure the band for normal use.

Cameron contacted Roy Marcot for me. Roy sent Cameron some pictures of the original FSMR. Upon close examination of the new pictures I made the decision to use the tension method suggested by Joe to hold the bands in place.

I corresponded with RSA member Corey Creamer to help me attain the utmost accuracy in this reproduction. Unfortunately, the archives did not provide any additional information.

I sent Jerry King a picture for a sneak peak of the completed FSMR. I was telling Jerry how I had done the project and some concerns about it being 100% exactly like the original. Jerry and I talked for quite a while and he told me something that I think was very appropriate for this project. He said, “Jack, you must remember that what you have done is created a custom rifle based on another custom rifle. The FSMR was one of a kind made to the specifications of Major Hession. There were no other rifles made. It was not a factory production so therefore you are not trying to make a reproduction.” Thank you Jerry for your words of wisdom.

I wanted Cameron’s thoughts before I posted anything about this project. I wanted to be certain that I would not be doing anything detrimental to the original FSMR. When Cameron viewed the pictures he was briefer than Jerry. He said” ...you built a one-of-a-kind of a one-of-a-kind.”

Cameron and Jerry’s comments made me feel good. I gave up all concerns about the rifle being 100 % exactly like the original FSMR. In this case, I would say that I created a facsimile of a very unique variation of the Remington Model 8 and not a reproduction.

There were individuals who contributed to this project and without their help, the project would have been much more difficult if not impossible to complete. Those individuals are: Gerald (jerry) King (sighthound); Bob Brueninger (remcrazy); Pete VerSchneider (2verpster); Corey Creamer (Rem8&81); Joe Kester (3006-springfield); Sam Williams, Williams Gunshop; and my good friend and collaborator, Cameron (Cam) Woodall (81police). Thanks guys for all your help and encouragement.

Reference material came from “The Great Remington 8 and Model 81 Autoloading Rifles” by John Henwood.

Regards,

jack1653
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81police
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Re: Full Stock Match Rifle

Post by 81police »

Here are some photo comparisons of Jack's full-stocked reproduction compared to the original, used by Maj. John Hession. As you can see Jack's version is a VERY close, faithful reproduction of the original.

Photography by Roy Marcot.
Remington Arms Co., Inc. collection - Ilion, New York


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Cam Woodall
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81police
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Re: Full Stock Match Rifle

Post by 81police »

The 1901 Krag sight is pretty cool too!

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Cam Woodall
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S and S HUNTCLUB
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Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:59 pm

Re: Full Stock Match Rifle

Post by S and S HUNTCLUB »

This is a very nice looking rifle! Our hats are off to everyone involved in making this reproduction. The end result is fantastic! We bet it's a blast to shoot too. Congrats on a beautiful project ... well done everyone!
Enjoy Life, Jeff & Bob @ S and S HUNTCLUB

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rem81auto
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Re: Full Stock Match Rifle

Post by rem81auto »

Jackitis at it's best ... good going. :D

sighthound
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Re: Full Stock Match Rifle

Post by sighthound »

Jack, You are the working CEO of this FSMR project and all other projects you engage in, general collection, cased set with interchangable barrels, successful hunt for Trials rifle, police rifles and magazines, engraved models, the list goes on. I am pleased to have had a small part in FSMR effort and applaude the creation and end result and the contributions of the craftsmen and artists who worked and contributed their skills to your FSMR, I never considered my efforts as more than look alikes while yours is as near a recreation of the Springfield Armory custom match rifle for Major John Hession as possible. Congratulations to you and all involved. Jerry

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S and S HUNTCLUB
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Re: Full Stock Match Rifle

Post by S and S HUNTCLUB »

We have to agree with sighthound. Jacks passion for these rifles is incredible! His drive to "collect the rare & hard to acquire rifles, as well as his special projects", is something that both Jeff & I admire about Jack. We love Jack's passion for these rifles and his vision to create as well. Keep up the great work Jack & thanks for sharing this project with everyone! Enjoy Life, Bob & Jeff @ S and S HUNTCLUB

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81police
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Re: Full Stock Match Rifle

Post by 81police »

I think the only thing lacking with this rifle of Jack's is a RANGE REPORT :shock:
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ROBOPUMP
Posts: 256
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Location: Houston, TX

Re: Full Stock Match Rifle

Post by ROBOPUMP »

What a beautiful creation. I would have said it could not be done. I think that Jack's FSMR should be the prize for the M8 butt stock contest or one just like it. All in favor! Yeah, Yeah, Yeah.

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imfuncity
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Re: Full Stock Match Rifle

Post by imfuncity »

"I think the only thing lacking with this rifle of Jack's is a RANGE REPORT :shock:"

Shooting it... with Jack properly (age correct) attired!!
Though defensive violence will always be “a sad necessity” in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men. - St. Augustine

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Adam Lee
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Re: Full Stock Match Rifle

Post by Adam Lee »

Took me awhile to get to post this but I will add my kudos as well.

Very well done!

Adam
I am a regular joe, consisting of 78% coffee, 12% hot air, 9% organizational abilities, and 1% luck.

ROBOPUMP
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Re: Full Stock Match Rifle

Post by ROBOPUMP »

I had this brain storm about two weeks ago when this post just came out about this Jack built FSMR. I can see this project in my mind and I know Jack can do it. As I describe it, some of you will see it also. I can almost sketch it out on paper. It is a mock up of a 1927 Tommy gun using a Rem 8/81. I can see the barrel shortened to 16.5" just like the Tommy. Adam can do that for you Jack. Use the boss on the barrel jacket to anchor a carved out front Tommy style grip. May have to move the boss to a different place on the barrel jacket to make it look right. Take away the take down crank screw and use a cap screw. The cap screw would be drilled and tapped to receive the anchor screw of a wooden cap over the take down cap screw. The wooden cap would be similar to a baseball catcher's jock cup(but much smaller). A rear Tommy style grip could be carved out to somewhat straddle the rear of the trigger guard and an anchor bolt hole could be drilled and tapped in the trigger plate just behind the trigger guard. A look alike Tommy gun butt stock could be created and drilled to accept the action spring tube and rear top tang of the M8/81. Starting to get the picture. Not through yet. If a M8/81 can malfunction and slam fire, then it should be a capability to make it slam fire continuously. If so, a fully automatic M8/81 action could be had. I think maybe some of you have toyed with this before and were successful, but could not post it because fully auto's are illegal to have unless you have a special FFL. The final touch would be to "borrow" the 15 round mag from Jack's newly acquired prize from the L A Sheriffs Dept and have this rifle converted to accept it. Now that would be a conversion that would look awesome and have a lot more fire power than the 45 ACP Thompson. Just letting my thoughts out and trying to plant a seed in Jack's head.

ROB

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jack1653
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Re: Full Stock Match Rifle

Post by jack1653 »

Hey Rob,

You are tempting an old man who is just about to recover from a very serious bout of "jackitis". I have attached the following two links to see if you are talking about a combination of these two projects. One project was done by remcrazy and the other was done by me. After you look at the two rifles, let me know if this is anywhere close to your idea.viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2221
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2329&p=7102&sid=eb2 ... b6db#p7102
Regards,

jack1653

ROBOPUMP
Posts: 256
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Location: Houston, TX

Re: Full Stock Match Rifle

Post by ROBOPUMP »

Ah! These are close, but get rid of the forearm completely and mount the Tommy style front grip directly on the underside of the barrel jacket using the forearm screw boss and a mounting screw all the way up through the grip. Do away with the take down screw with the crank handle and replace with a cap screw and cover. Also, add a Tommy style grip behind the trigger guard. The Tommy style butt stock looks fine and is exactly what I think it should look like. I even have an idea of making a drum mag, but that would be very complicated. Thank you for your response Jack. Itis????

ROB

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81police
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Re: Full Stock Match Rifle

Post by 81police »

ROBOPUMP wrote:I can almost sketch it out on paper. It is a mock up of a 1927 Tommy gun using a Rem 8/81. I can see the barrel shortened to 16.5" just like the Tommy.
Just when you think something hasn't already been done! Hopefully Circle B Ranch won't mind us posting these photos of their awesome wood handiwork! Here's one with a very Thompson-like stock set and shortened 17" barrel.
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S and S HUNTCLUB
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Re: Full Stock Match Rifle

Post by S and S HUNTCLUB »

I looked at this post again today and I sure do like the FSMR and the Tommy Gun Carbine as well! Mr. Bob Breuninger sure does some fancy looking wood work for some of us here on the site.

I do enjoy all of the post with the pictures and the great stories that go along with the photos.

Bob has done some beautiful stock reproduction work for me as well. Back in the fall of 2009 or early 2010, I sent some black walnut out to Bob from a tree I cut down in Nineteen Hundred and Eighty Nine. I had to cut down this beautiful big black walnut tree because in was right in the middle of where I was going to build my first home. I cut down the tree and left the tree in 12'-14' long logs. I then had the black walnut logs sawn into some thick boards for mantles, gun stocks and some 1x material for wood working. I stacked the rough sawn walnut with slats of wood between each board & it had been air drying in my basement since 1989. Twenty years of air drying seemed like enough time to me! :)

So, I decided that I'd better make some good use of it and sent a bunch of butt stock slabs & forearm slabs out to Bob in Arizona and we did some trading. I had picked out a few pieces where the wood grain was very appealing to me & Bob created some real fine Model 8 & 81 butt stocks and forearms for me, in trade for the rest of the black walnut material that I sent out to in him in Arizona. In July and October of 2010, I received my newly created reproduction stock work and I was very pleased with everything.

Its been a few years now and I have finally acquired the checkering tools, a vintage walnut checkering cradle, some beautiful ivory pieces and some fine German silver. This story has sparked my interest again and its time that I get back into a few long over-due Remington Model 8, Model 81 and FN 1900 projects of my own.

Here's a few pictures of the work that Bob B (remcrazy) has created for me.

I'll take it from here my friend. Thanks for all of your help throughout the years with many of my request along the way. It sure is nice to have a friend like you sir. Your guidance along to way has been a tremendous help Bob...Thank you so very much Buddy!

Enjoy Life, Bob @ S and S HUNTCLUB
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remcrazy
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Re: Full Stock Match Rifle

Post by remcrazy »

Great job Jack on the final completion of your FSMR Replica! I notice a number of small modifications done to the stock work that I originally did not do, such as the "step" in the rear site notch out. I would have blended it back to match the existing contour I originally had and cut a bit less out of the actual site cut out to allow a tighter fit. I noticed too, that you had rounded over the very end of the stock at the front sight. As far as the barrel bands and retainer pins, you and I had discussed these at length. It was decided that due to lack of actual information, available pictures and detail other than what we currently had, to use this method with the modified 1903 Springfield barrel bands. In any event, any/all modifications are yours to do as you see fit! That said, I think for all practical purposes we achieved the near perfect replica of a very rare, one of a kind rifle! I'm happy to have played a small part in the building of your FSMR replica! It was a fun project sir!
Very best always!
Remcrazy

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