My first Model 8

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Headoftheholler
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My first Model 8

Post by Headoftheholler » Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:10 pm

My first post, I have been wanting a 8 or 81 for quite a while now but have absolutley never saw one in person here in east ky.
I trade a lot on facebook gun groups and a guy posted he had a 81 for sale or trade, I traded him a rifle I had $200 into, imagine my surprise when I showed up and it was an 8 instead, with early features to boot. Its in .30 rem (gonna have to find some now) made in 1913. Everything looks great except for a dent in the barrel shroud, perplexed on how to fix this, suggestions welcome.
Here is a pic of it and a pic of it's stablemate and kin , a Remington model 11 I reblued (rust blue) and refinished the stocks.
Image
Image

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Packmule
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Re: My first Model 8

Post by Packmule » Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:14 pm

welcome to the maddness


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DWalt
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Re: My first Model 8

Post by DWalt » Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:27 pm

.30 Rem ammunition exists, but it's not common. It has not been factory loaded for over 15 years. You might be able to find some at gun shows or in out-of-the way rural hardware stores. The internet can get you some, but shipping costs for small quantities will be high. If you are a reloader, the best thing to do is to load your own, as the brass is more available than the loaded ammunition. You can use .30-30 dies, even though there are some slight dimensional differences between the .30-30 and .30 Rem cases.

While I've had some Model 81s for quite a while, I just ran across my first Model 8 a few months ago, also in .30.

Depending where the jacket dent is, and how bad, it may not be too tough to iron out using the same methods used to straighten out dented shotgun barrels. One way is to turn a steel or brass plug to the exact diameter and pound it into the jacket, then pound it back out. There are also hydraulic dent lifters, but whether they come in the correct size for a barrel jacket, I do not know. Others here may have done it, and can better tell you how. Most any halfway competent gunsmith should be able to do it. It's not very difficult to remove the barrel and springs from the jacket to work on it.

While I'm not originally from eastern KY, I was born and raised across the Ohio river from it many years ago. Welcome to the forum.

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Sarge756
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Re: My first Model 8

Post by Sarge756 » Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:01 pm

Welcome. I`d say you did very well for a $200 investment. The wood and metal look to be original and undamaged. Fine job on the Sportsman restoration . Can`t wait to see the after photos of your 8 if you decide to restore it. Looks like you know what you are doing and I look forward to trading secrets with you along the way. Round knob pistol grip with ears is a plus and in my favorite (Lighter Recoil) 30 Rem. I know you are anxious to shoot it.If you hit a wall with finding ammo PM me your address and I`ll send you a few to get you started. Someone here may have the trick for removing dents from the jacket.I`ve never tried, and in fact have an 8 in 35 Rem that has that problem. I have removed dents from shotgun magazine tubes by pounding in wooden dowels and round stock aluminum of the right diameter.Using a steel or brass plug for the barrel jacket may be needed due to it being a bit thicker than magazine tubes. Of course a shotgun barrel dent raiser would be the ticket, but they are a bit pricey. Look forward to the input on this and maybe we both can get the dents out.
Joe

BTW.....These old guns are like eating potato chips.....You ain`t gonna stop with one. :lol:
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With seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."

f.a.b.
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Re: My first Model 8

Post by f.a.b. » Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:18 am

Welcome to the forum --- I'm sure Member rem81auto can set you up with a John Hosford barrel dent raiser or someone in your neck of the woods may have one -- That tool will get your job done !!!

DWalt
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Re: My first Model 8

Post by DWalt » Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:32 am

I did not mention it earlier, but it is possible to convert .30-30 brass to .30 Rem. Having a lathe, while not absolutely essential, makes the job fairly simple. What it involves is machining the .30-30 rim to case head diameter, thinning the rim a bit, and cutting an extractor groove. Fairly easy to do if you have rudimentary lathe skills. Buying brass is easier.

Remington Model 11s make ideal companions to the 8/81. Unfortunately I no longer have any left, all mine having been sold off over 20 years ago. I passed up a Browning A-5 last week at a very reasonable price, as it needed more restoration work on it to get it into acceptable shape than I felt like doing.

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81police
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Re: My first Model 8

Post by 81police » Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:08 pm

that is a fantastic, classic semi-pistol grip Model 8! I love those round-knob grips and yours has a really cool buttplate as well. I think you scored big on this one :D
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imfuncity
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Re: My first Model 8

Post by imfuncity » Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:31 pm

Welcome indeed - cool the guy didn't object to you wearing a mask! You done good.
Though defensive violence will always be “a sad necessity” in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men. - St. Augustine

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imfuncity
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As to Dent removal

Post by imfuncity » Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:32 pm

A few years back, I watched a good friend/home-spun gunsmith (not unlike JMB himself) remove a pretty good size dent in one of my 8/81. Unfortunately, I was so new to guns and especially gun-smithing, that I had no real appreciation for what he was doing or that it was something special. Sadly he is gone now and I'm left trying to remember how he did a lot of things. :oops:

As to the dent removal, I'll try to relate what I remember but the two options are sort of contradictory. I remember thinking at the time that what he was doing was similar to taping the handle end of a hammer to seat the free floating head on the other end. Thus, if I needed to remove a similar dent, I'd try option 2 first.

1. He put something inside approximately the same size as the barrel, then formed a piece of lead to the shroud's contour but a bit bigger then the dent, he then tapped on the lead with a hammer, allowing the piece inside to knock the dent back out. He checked under the lead after each tap, after a few taps he handed it to me done.

2. He put a round piece of lead inside as close to the shrouds diameter as he had. Then placed a concave piece of over the dent protected the shroud a piece of cardboard or material and tapped it with a hammer, allowing the lead inside to knock the dent out - of course checking it regularly until we were satisfied the dent was totally gone.

Sorry I didn't take pictures and/or remember better... he just made it look so easy!! As if he did it regularly no big deal! :roll: I can also say that to this day, I have no idea which gun had the dent, as there are no telltale clues on the gun shroud. Sigh... hope someone understands what he did and shares it with the rest of us. :D
Though defensive violence will always be “a sad necessity” in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men. - St. Augustine

DWalt
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Re: My first Model 8

Post by DWalt » Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:09 am

An internet search will produce numerous answers to how dents (usually in shotgun barrels) can be removed. They range from using simple plugs turned to the proper diameter (including those made of brass, steel, and even hardwood), to hydraulic dent lifters (expensive) to some wedge-type tool Midway sells. I imagine Brownell's also sells such tools. There is also a Midway video about this topic on youtube. You should watch it.

mattitude
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Re: My first Model 8

Post by mattitude » Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:53 pm

Sweet Model 8 and you did an awesome job on the Model 11. I think you got such a great deal is that more than likely the person you got the rifle from just couldn't find any ammo for quite some time and decided to move it for something that they could shoot. You might want to ask if they have ANY ammo or brass for it...you might be surprised what they might find.

As far as dent removal, I read somewhere on the parent site that someone use a ratchet socket that fit perfectly and just knocked it straight on through. It wouldn't be that difficult to put a slight taper on one end of the socket to keep it from binding up in the jacket. Great score and I hope that you will be able to enjoy it. At the very least you should be able to find a .35 Remington or .300 Savage front end so that you will be able to find factory ammo.
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Phyrbird
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Re: My first Model 8

Post by Phyrbird » Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:16 pm

Use caution with the tight fitting socket. There's a barrel jacket plug inside the the sleeve. It's the base for the buffer and recoil spring and should not be moved. If you break it loose :oops: no spring action. :shock: Very Bad!!

Wish I could find someone with an 8 gauge shotgun dent raiser. I feel your pain...
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Headoftheholler
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Re: My first Model 8

Post by Headoftheholler » Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:47 pm

Thanks for the kind words, I've got some 30 rem corelockts incoming for a function test.
Looking for a tang sight though prior to refinish.

Headoftheholler
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Re: My first Model 8

Post by Headoftheholler » Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:02 am

Finally got a chance to function test / shoot the model 8 yesterday.
I bought a box of Remington Hi Speed in .30 Rem from a friend of a friend.
Functions flawlessly and very accurate, made sure to save the brass, I don't reload but
I hear its not easy to find.

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81police
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Re: My first Model 8

Post by 81police » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:09 am

Headoftheholler, you're officially addicted! :D
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DWalt
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Re: My first Model 8

Post by DWalt » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:30 am

"Functions flawlessly and very accurate, made sure to save the brass, I don't reload but
I hear its not easy to find."


Absolutely. In fact at the present time, I leave no brass on the ground except .22 rimfire. It's not that expensive to get the necessary tools and accessories to reload (try eBay), and the way things are now, having the equipment and a stockpile of components is good insurance against what might happen in the future.

One nice thing about the .30 Remington is that about any .30 bullet will work, even pointed ones (spitzers). I find the lighter spitzers (125 or 130 grain) work best as they do not have to be seated so deeply to maintain the correct overall cartridge length. I have even successfully loaded 220 grain round nose bullets. If you like to experiment, reloading is for you.

Headoftheholler
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Re: My first Model 8

Post by Headoftheholler » Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:38 pm

Finally got the stock and forearm refinished, between a new baby boy, promotion at work, and high humidity screwing with drying time it has taken a long time to get this far. There were and still are to an extent heavy old oil soaked deposits near the buttplate end of the stock, my typical routine of acetone and / or whiting compound didn't remove all of it completely. I didn't think a high gloss finish would be age appropriate for this one so I went with the antique oil finish by Minwax. Found and fixed a couple of cracks that were previously hiding under the finish, I am happy with it, its not too flashy but at the same time you can see the grain now.
BEFORE:
Image

And NOW:
Image

As for the metal aspect , the gentleman here that makes the barrel disasembly tool is out till December so rebluing will have to wait.

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Adam Lee
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Re: My first Model 8

Post by Adam Lee » Sat Sep 28, 2013 5:22 pm

Andrew, were are you in KY? Although I live in VA (NOVA to be precise) my kids (18 and 15) live in Nashville, TN, so I do a bit of driving around. Point is, wouldn't be that much of a stretch for me to drop by for a shootfest some day.

Anyway, nice old 8 and have fun!

Adam
I am a regular joe, consisting of 78% coffee, 12% hot air, 9% organizational abilities, and 1% luck.

Headoftheholler
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Re: My first Model 8

Post by Headoftheholler » Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:51 pm

I'm in far eastern Kentucky, about 45 minutes from Wise VA.
Love to shoot, though Im low on 30 rem at the moment, lol.

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olskool
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Re: My first Model 8

Post by olskool » Fri Oct 25, 2013 3:36 am

to get oil out of wood i strip the old varnish with wood stripper, then i get a wash tub and use hot water, real hot but be able to put my hand in it but not able to leave it in it. then i use oxy-clean and scrub the wood in the hot water. all the oil will come out.
I have never harvested an animal, but I have killed quite a few.............

uhjohnson
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Re: My first Model 8

Post by uhjohnson » Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:33 pm

finish looks nice, buuuut i think you ruined it, should have left it alone, it matched the rest of the guns original finish. looks like you took too much wood off


sorry :o






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smitsauce
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Re: My first Model 8

Post by smitsauce » Fri Nov 29, 2013 5:23 pm

uhjohnson wrote:finish looks nice, buuuut i think you ruined it, should have left it alone, it matched the rest of the guns original finish. looks like you took too much wood off


sorry :o
809
Agreed! The nice stock cheeks are completely gone now! These old guns look better "Old" unless they come to you in fantastic un-refinished condition! They usually look funny all polished up as in doing so, some original features become diminished. This is an example of that unfortunately.

Headoftheholler
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Re: My first Model 8

Post by Headoftheholler » Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:47 pm

The stock had already seen a previous refinish virtually eliminating the farside (not pictured cheek) to fix a chunk of wood that had chipped off. There were also 3 bad cracks that had to be addressed. As for the wood not matching, It will once I get this barrel nut off to reblue. That's what makes living here great , its my rifle to do with as I please, regardless of what anyone else thinks about it. I could care less what you think.

smitsauce
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Re: My first Model 8

Post by smitsauce » Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:03 pm

I'm sure it will look nice once you are all finished. I just prefer the "been there done that many times" look myself. There is a memeber on here circlebranch, I think, that sells "Pro tools" for the dissassembly of the barrel jacket components. I have a set and they are worth every penny. Give him a shout if you want some.

Good luck with only having one of these amazing rifles. I have been bit hard and they are my favourite rifle now. In the almost 2 years since my first, I now have 3 FN 1900's, 1 model 8 in .35(1906), 1 model 8D in .35(1909), 1 model 81 in .300Sav.(1942)

Cheers,

Ian

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Adam Lee
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Re: My first Model 8

Post by Adam Lee » Sat Nov 30, 2013 10:53 pm

Headoftheholler wrote:That's what makes living here great , its my rifle to do with as I please, regardless of what anyone else thinks about it. I could care less what you think.
Andrew, I was just about to say the same thing!

Dang, this had been a difficult thread for me to not respond to - I think the same way you do about guns and you just gotta keep in mind that everyone's got opinions - as well as other anatomical features!

I'm just glad to see you may still yet be "on the fence" with your early 8, hope you get jazzed and hang on to 'er!

Adam
I am a regular joe, consisting of 78% coffee, 12% hot air, 9% organizational abilities, and 1% luck.

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olskool
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Re: My first Model 8

Post by olskool » Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:50 am

live and learn, 30 years ago i would have probably done the same thing. if you don't know, you don't know.
I have never harvested an animal, but I have killed quite a few.............

Headoftheholler
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Re: My first Model 8

Post by Headoftheholler » Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:07 am

Adam Lee wrote:
Headoftheholler wrote:That's what makes living here great , its my rifle to do with as I please, regardless of what anyone else thinks about it. I could care less what you think.
Andrew, I was just about to say the same thing!

Dang, this had been a difficult thread for me to not respond to - I think the same way you do about guns and you just gotta keep in mind that everyone's got opinions - as well as other anatomical features!

I'm just glad to see you may still yet be "on the fence" with your early 8, hope you get jazzed and hang on to 'er!

Adam
Cant do much till the tool becomes avalible again in January, was offered a Glock in trade for it and also a CDL Mod. 700, I already have both so I still have the model 8, who knows?

Headoftheholler
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Re: My first Model 8

Post by Headoftheholler » Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:14 am

olskool wrote:live and learn, 30 years ago i would have probably done the same thing. if you don't know, you don't know.
I do know. I also can't stand people that want to stand back with their collective noses in the air when someone takes a rusty crusty firearm that has chunks of wood missing, buggered screws and a dented barrel shroud and make something nice of it, only because of "Value" Just because a book says a gun is worth something and if I refinish it its not worth scrap. Means nothing to me , value is objective. I don't want a safe full of guns with "honest wear" or "patina". Again they are my firearms and what I do to them is my business, my gain or my loss.

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olskool
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Re: My first Model 8

Post by olskool » Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:52 pm

you are correct sir it is your gun and your bussiness, if you want to throw it in the river that's fine, this is america and i support your right to do so. but people have the right to there opinion on an open forum, so don't get upset when you post photos of a stock that has been ruined at least on one side, (we did not know how the other side looked before the refinish job was done) and they give there thoughts on the matter. and my nose is not up in the air, i have ruined my share of things and have been told about it, i try to be humble and listen and learn from my mistakes, not get mad at those who point it out to me.
I have never harvested an animal, but I have killed quite a few.............

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imfuncity
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Re: My first Model 8

Post by imfuncity » Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:49 pm

I do like the originals but got a few refurbs and one on the way like'm too.

Recommend you keep it but if you want to part with it I'd be listen'n... might even give you a touch more then your investment too. ;) :lol:
Though defensive violence will always be “a sad necessity” in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men. - St. Augustine

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Phyrbird
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Re: My first Model 8

Post by Phyrbird » Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:35 pm

Head O' Holler,
See you got 4 different views, keep the faith. We all can appreciate a craftsman and our favorite Browning product.
The nice thing about this forum is there's something going on at leeast weekly. Most of the others are 6 months to 2 years old. The other guys wish they had it this good.... :D :D
Phyrbird
SOKY

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