Outdoor Life cartridge article

Posts about the Model 8
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texassako
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Outdoor Life cartridge article

Post by texassako »

They list their opinion of the sexiest cartridges you need in a gun. 35 Remington is on the list as a better option than the 30-30 and the sexy comes from being in the Model 8 "that lawmen used to bring down outlaw Clyde Barrow of Bonnie and Clyde fame.". :D .

DWalt
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Re: Outdoor Life cartridge article

Post by DWalt »

You mean that they actually stated the .35 Rem was the caliber used to assassinate Bonnie & Clyde? I think they need a fact checker on their editorial staff.

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Roger
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Re: Outdoor Life cartridge article

Post by Roger »

DWalt, My understanding of the story is that deputy Prentiss oakley used the dentist,Dr. Henry shehee's Rem-8 in 35rem. To kill clyde on the first shot in the head. Now this story is much debated but there is at least some documentation of this account according to Henwood's book. But who will ever really know?
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rem81auto
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Re: Outdoor Life cartridge article

Post by rem81auto »

I thought is was a borrowed 30 Rem used at the ambush.

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Roger
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Re: Outdoor Life cartridge article

Post by Roger »

I could be mistaken but I thought it was a 35 rem.---but it definitly belonged to the dentist,Dr. Henry Shehee----Roger
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Rem8&81
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Re: Outdoor Life cartridge article

Post by Rem8&81 »

The rifle used by Deputy Prentise Oakley in the ambush on Bonnie and Clyde was a .35 caliber model 8 serial no. 48990. It had a special order half pistol gripped stock. I held the gun in my hands at a Huston Texas guns show about a dozen years ago when it was owned by our friend Dolph McCleish. The rifle was sold several years ago at auction and hammered at $62,000 if my recollection is correct. The rifle is pictured in Henwood's book.
[color=#004000]COREY CREAMER[/color]

DWalt
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Re: Outdoor Life cartridge article

Post by DWalt »

From the Frank Hamer article in the September 2011 issue of the American Rifleman regarding the Bonnie and Clyde assassination:

"Across the road, behind some brush, were Ted Hinton and Bob Alcorn, Henderson Jordan and Prentis Oakley, and Hamer and Gault. At least one man in the group, Hinton, had a BAR. Gault was carrying Hamer’s Model 8 Remington, in .25 Rem., while Hamer was armed with his Model 8, in .30 Rem., Old Lucky and a Colt .38 Super.

On the morning of the 23rd, the officers were about to call off their ambush when Barrow and Parker drove up to the scene. Sheriff Jordan and Capt. Hamer both called on them to surrender, but Clyde, who was driving, put his car in gear and attempted to drive off. Bonnie and Clyde died in a hail of bullets.

Years ago, I knew two old Texas Rangers, Dan Westbrook and Lee Trimble, who had worked with Hamer. On separate occasions they both told me the same story. They said that when the Barrow car started to pull away, Hamer fired two quick shots with his Model 8 and then sat down and lit a Camel. Autopsy photos clearly show two head shots on the pair. While there is no way to document this tale, it is certainly within Hamer’s ability to have made those shots."

On this site, there is a picture of the weapons possibly used in the ambush laying on the roof of a car. It shows one Model 8, a BAR, and three shotguns. As there were six officers involved, there is one missing weapon (possibly outside the frame). However, if Hamer and Gault both had Model 8s ( in .25 and .30, as stated above), and Hinton had a BAR, then the missing weapon was one of the model 8s, either Gault's or Hamer's. Therefore, the other three officers may well have used one shotgun each (3 shotguns showing), and there was no third Model 8. Who knows? I was not there, and I am sure there are many variations in the stories about who used what gun, and the reliability of any story (including the foregoing) can certainly be suspect at this late date.

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imfuncity
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Re: Outdoor Life cartridge article

Post by imfuncity »

I am rather new to guns and fascinated by history. One of the Hamer and Bonnie & Clyde shootout stories is one of the things that started me into guns, specifically M8 & 81's. I have read several "official" accounts, none of which agreed on all the facts. :o

Unfortunately while researching guns, history, etc. the only thing that I have found to be true most of time is that American Rifleman's "facts" are not - a fact which is very disappointing to me a new NRA member and being new to the gun world I was expecting the NRA staff to be the "final answer". :(
Though defensive violence will always be “a sad necessity” in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men. - St. Augustine

DWalt
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Re: Outdoor Life cartridge article

Post by DWalt »

Interesting - do you have any examples of misinformation you have discovered in the American Rifleman? I don't remember ever reading anything there that was factually at odds with my personal knowledge.

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imfuncity
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Re: Outdoor Life cartridge article

Post by imfuncity »

DWalt - good question I should have marked and saved some of them! (Especially before I commented!) :roll:

Here is my story and I’m sticking to it until I don’t… ;)
Mentioned my observations on anther forum a while back, the response was duh! Consider their editors - specifically Canfield and Towsley...! That was an I an eye opener to me, as I have books by both and had been taking their works as gospel!

Thus, I thought my post here regarding NRA publications was common knowledge. Specifically, I recall that the American Rifleman article on M8 & 81's couple of years back seem to have lacked depth, complete information, and accuracy – but at the time I thought it was just me. :?

In ’09, I noticed what appeared to be an error on a placard at the NRA museum in VA. I ask one of the attendants about it. He said he didn't know but he would get Phil Schreier. (Again, being very new and not positive of my information) I suggested he just ask someone where they got their information and I’d research and check my information. He returned, said Mr. Schreier would be down in a few minutes. Over the next couple of hours I ask the attendant if Schreier was in the building and still coming down, he made a call, confirmed he was and would be down. I was there until they closed, he never showed. (Sorry, but I did not make any notes nor do I now remember what the offending issue was.) :oops:

Guys, don't take this wrong. NRA is still the best thing we have going for us in the USA! And, we know what has happened to countries that did not have anything like the NRA. Soon I will be a Life Member and I plan to visit the museum every time I'm in the area. If you ever get to VA don't miss it, well worth a visit and the price is rigiht. :D

Thus, my comments are just that - one person’s observation and from a gun newbie at that... But also, to remind all of us that there are a lot of places to gather, check and confirm information. It is not only our right but our responsibility to cross check everyone, including the preacher yesterday! :shock: (Thanks for calling me on it DWalt, I’ll likely stumble over my own soapbox soon. :oops: )
Though defensive violence will always be “a sad necessity” in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men. - St. Augustine

DWalt
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Re: Outdoor Life cartridge article

Post by DWalt »

I had an experience with a small local museum that had a fair collection of representative small arms examples ranging from the Civil War through WWII. I noticed that better than half the description cards provided for guns on display were either incorrect (misidentified) or incomplete, and brought it to the attention of the acting curator. He was not by any means a gun guy, and invited me to provide him correct captions, which I did. He actually used my revisions. The surprising thing was how long the faulty description cards had been in place, with no one knowing the difference (e.g., a Spencer carbine identified as a Sharps, a model 1903A3 Springfield identified as a model 1903, A model 1909 Colt revolver identified as a model 1917, etc.)

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