Model 8 fails to eject

Information on Malfunctions and Care of your Model 8 & 81
Post Reply
cedarhillsupply
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:19 am

Model 8 fails to eject

Post by cedarhillsupply » Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:51 pm

Compadres,
the list no stranger to ejection problems. The solutions usally center around weak ejector springs and/or chipped extractors. I have a model 8 in 35 , made in 1918, that recoils normally, but fails to eject. I tried the easiest solution first, polishing the chamber. No help. The extractor appears intact, no visible chips on the lip. The ejector spring seems healthy enough and springs back normally. The only odd thing that I can find is that the firing pin indentation appears excessive. I took a picture of a fired case next to one shot in my best model 8, made in 1909. As you can see, the indentation looks like the case was fired in a rolling block.
The gun has been reblued, and been around almost a century. Reminds me of my dear mother's comment when I started dating a girl three years older than my 17 years : "No telling where she's been and who has had their hands on her".
Any ideas?
Attachments
Model 8 primer 003.JPG
Model 8 primer 003.JPG (41.45 KiB) Viewed 9636 times

User avatar
Phyrbird
Posts: 921
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:53 pm

Re: Model 8 fails to eject

Post by Phyrbird » Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:05 pm

CHS,
One thing does the action open after firing? You can check this with a stepped wood dowel. place buttstock on a soft surface, (they can crack :oops: ) Verify there are no rounds in the rifle, :shock: The dowel should fit in the bore with a step smaller than the inside of the barrel jacket bushing. Push the barrel back against the spring to work the action as in recoil. when the action is all the way back, the bolt should catch and hold till the barrel returns to battery. Then it releases and snaps forward. :o
You may have a problem with the barrel lock or bolt carrier latch assembly. When you pull the bolt handle the mechanism works differently than in firing. There is an old video on Youtube of this process.
The Browning A5 and Remington M11s work the same way. 8-)
Phyrbird
SOKY

h.charlie
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:48 am

Re: Model 8 fails to eject

Post by h.charlie » Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:54 am

Are those reloads?

cedarhillsupply
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:19 am

Re: Model 8 fails to eject

Post by cedarhillsupply » Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:36 am

They are reloads. Hornady 200 grain spire point, 39 grains of 748, Wolf LR primer, cases trimmed ( forgot the OAL).

h.charlie
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:48 am

Re: Model 8 fails to eject

Post by h.charlie » Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:13 am

That dimpled primer is a sign of low pressure, witch would cause failure to eject, not familiar with 35 Remington but if you have noticed a dirty barrel this would also suggest a low powder charge or to long of a coal.

h.charlie
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:48 am

Re: Model 8 fails to eject

Post by h.charlie » Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:15 am

How are you measuring the charge? Powder dippers, powder drop, trickler and a scale? My just be a inconsistent throw of the powder drop or scoop of a powder dipper. When I use the powder drop I tap the drop before every throw to settle the powder.

cedarhillsupply
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:19 am

Re: Model 8 fails to eject

Post by cedarhillsupply » Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:25 am

I use a RCBS powder measure. weigh charges on an electronic scale until I get it set, then throw ten rounds and weigh the result. I try to use the same handle stroke every time ( bump it at the top, bump it at the bottom). HOWEVER, I will load three rounds with weighed charges and try those.

norm
Posts: 81
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:39 am

Re: Model 8 fails to eject

Post by norm » Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:54 pm

Check the cases. Something might be different between them. Primer pocket or flash hole size. Or maybe not. just a thought.

h.charlie
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:48 am

Re: Model 8 fails to eject

Post by h.charlie » Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:09 am

Might be a bigger chamber? Have you worked a load up specifically for that rifle?

cedarhillsupply
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:19 am

Re: Model 8 fails to eject

Post by cedarhillsupply » Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:32 am

I have not. The ammo has been fired in two model 8s and a 141. Only the gun under discussion has produced such large indentations.

cedarhillsupply
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:19 am

Re: Model 8 fails to eject

Post by cedarhillsupply » Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:50 pm

Update - I tried Phyrbird's suggestion. The barrel pushes back into the shroud, the bolt goes rearward, but lacks about 1/4 of locking to the back. When I push the cocking handle rearward, the bolt latches. Of note is that two other rilfes which have functioned normally ( an 81 in 300 Savage and an 8 in 35 Rem) do the exact same thing. Barrel pushes back, bolt does not latch to the rear. Of further note is that in the rifle under discussion, it is only the last round in the string that stays in the chamber, all other rounds eject as normal. The mystery continues. :?:

User avatar
Phyrbird
Posts: 921
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:53 pm

Re: Model 8 fails to eject

Post by Phyrbird » Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:43 pm

No More Firing, :shock: :shock: Please. I am concerned the barrel does not move all the way. From Cedar's description is this correct operation? Did you get the rifles from the same source?
I suspect something amiss with the assembly of the barrel jacket, recoil, and buffer spring. Or possibly a obstruction in the jacket preventing the barrel to move all the way. We have heard from a few members that purchased rifles "cleaned" and assembled wrong with damage to components. If things are bass-ackwards, :lol: firing only makes it worse each time the hammer drops. :?
There are many instructions, photos, and PDFs of manuals to get things right. Just look them up. Our fellow folks here will help too. :ugeek: I think a look at how the barrel is assembled or the bolt return spring may prove interesting.
Phyrbird
SOKY

Johnhalf
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: Model 8 fails to eject

Post by Johnhalf » Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:27 am

HI Cedar. Hope all is well.
Not sure if I am understanding properly. Not extracting or not ejecting?
If you fire one round would the bolt lock back with the brass visible but not ejected or would the bolt lock back with the brass in the chamber not extracted?
Very concerned about the dimple. Could be low pressure as mentioned above but could also be incorrect or homemade firing pin. I would disassemble the bolt carrier and check dimensions etc... of the firing pin as a precaution before firing again. If your other rifles have the same vintage of pin you can verify against those. If it is springless i have one i could measure for you.
There is an article linked to or posted somewhere here which says that you may not be able to lock back the bolt with a dowel but that it should almost lock back.(found it, in Henwood he talks about using a cleaning rod inserted through the barrel to push on the bolt face. He says that you cannot latch he bolt back this way but must do the last 1/4 inch yourself with the bolt knob to release the barrel. I think that the stepped dowel Phyrbird talks about would rather push the barrel back which might make it possible to compress the buffer spring) I will try it on mine and see what the results are.
Phyrbird is right. If things were put in wrong (like the recoil spring case) things can get ugly.
"Safety is something that happens between your ears, not something you hold in your hands." Jeff Cooper

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest