Bolt will not unlock....what do I do?

Information on Malfunctions and Care of your Model 8 & 81
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In The Ten Ring
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Bolt will not unlock....what do I do?

Post by In The Ten Ring »

Here is my Model 81 in .35 Remington. 1936 manufacture. I have removed the forearm and unscrewed the under barrel lug but the bolt and barrel remain locked together. You can see the safety is off.

How do I unlock the bolt? (The weapon is not loaded).

Should I go ahead and remove the buttstock and triggerguard assemblies?

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In The Ten Ring
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Re: Bolt will not unlock....what do I do?

Post by In The Ten Ring »

I tried to remove the stock, in order to try and remove the trigger guard assembly BUT the Williams sight appears to be preventing this by sitting on top of the stock. Can you see what I mean in the pic? Is it correct then to remove the Williams peep sight before trying to remove the stock?

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Bandersnatch
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Re: Bolt will not unlock....what do I do?

Post by Bandersnatch »

The peep sight will Not interfere with the removal of the stock. On the tang behind the trigger guard you will see two screws: remove the rear most of them. Do Not remove the one closest to the trigger guard. That one holds in the trigger spring. The further screw (the tang screw) is fairly long and once removed, the stock will slide off.
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In The Ten Ring
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Re: Bolt will not unlock....what do I do?

Post by In The Ten Ring »

Well thanks man. Robopump called today and walked me through removing the buttstock. Another member thinks the safety lever on the inside of the receiver is moving independent of that the outside lever does.....I am going to remove the triggerguard and see if that is the case. Maybe I can do that tomorrow.

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Phyrbird
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Re: Bolt will not unlock....what do I do?

Post by Phyrbird »

Ten Ring,
You don't have to do that yet. We can see the "rocker" inside the slot in the receiver.
Try a small screwdriver or lever to push the rocker down. Another option is to remove the safety lever screw and see if the shaft moves separate of the shaft. Aligning the lever and the rocker correctly then fixing them in place can be a little tricky. A fix has been posted here:

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3441
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ROBOPUMP
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Re: Bolt will not unlock....what do I do?

Post by ROBOPUMP »

I understand the issues with the safety rocker, but this should have nothing to do with the barrel not being released from the bolt. The barrel jacket assembly should be able to be released from the receiver whether the rifle is in safe mode or off safety and cocked or not cocked. More ideas? ROB

In The Ten Ring
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Re: Bolt will not unlock....what do I do?

Post by In The Ten Ring »

Robopump,

As soon as I get a hold of the right size of punch, I am going to remove the trigger guard and magazine and then I should have a better look at what's up.

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S and S HUNTCLUB
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Re: Bolt will not unlock....what do I do?

Post by S and S HUNTCLUB »

Hello sir, We have had several emails / conversations regarding your issue at hand. It appears to me that the rifle has been dry fired, as you can see the hammer resting against the back of the bolt carrier assembly. I can not see any sign of the safety rocker in the pictures you have provided.

The early style safety lever that you have on your rifle, can pivot on the two lug shaft that inserts into the slot on the safety rocker. The handle of the safety lever can pivot clock wise on its shaft. The safety lever and the safety rocker work in tandem with each other, or you could say that the safety lever and safety rocker move parallel with each other. When the safety lever is pushed down into the "safety off position", the safety rocker inside the receiver, should be parallel to the safety lever handle on the outside of the receiver.

As I mentioned, they work in tandem with each other. Your safety lever may have rotated on its shaft just enough to leave the safety rocker "trailing behind", so that the two are no longer running parallel with each other or working in tandem with each other.

The safety lever may have rotated clock wise just enough to allow the trigger to be pulled and release the hammer. But leaving the safety rocker "trailing behind". Your safety lever still will come to rest on the safety detent ball, so it still feels like its resting normally in its "safety off position" and you were able to pull the trigger and dry fire the rifle.

Or: When dry firing... The force applied by the main spring, can propel the hammer forward hitting the firing pin and then the hammer comes to rest on the back of the bolt carrier assembly. This amount of force can sometimes be enough to rotate your bolt just enough on the cam pins & lock the bolt lugs inside the barrel head extension. (The Barrel Head Extension: The part that is stamped with the caliber that your rifle is chambered in.) I have had this happen in the past on a rifle that we received that was dry fired before delivery to us. I was able to turn the rifle up side down and giggle the bolt handle and tap on the right side of the receiver by the bolt carrier assembly. By doing so, the bolt rotated enough to unlock the bolt lugs from the barrel head extension. It does not take much rotation to lock the two together.

From what you have mentioned and the type of early safety lever that you have on your rifle, I believe that the safety lever has rotated and/or failed. But, It may just be the bolt lugs have rotated a bit from dry firing the rifle.

If the safety lever and the safety rocker are no longer working in tandem, the safety rocker is trailing behind the safety lever just enough to not clear the bolt carrier & you can not pull the bolt carrier assembly backwards.

As I mentioned in our emails, you can push the safety rocker down with a thin piece of metal, a straightened paper clip, a small Allen wrench or a small screw driver etc., by inserting it in the groove on the right side of the receiver, where the bolt handle runs through the side of the receiver. It will not take much pressure. After the safety rocker is moved, you'll be able to pull the bolt back. If it does not slide back, then giggle the bolt to release the bolt lugs as I mentioned above. This will allow you to remove your barrel assembly.

Good luck with it sir.
Enjoy Life, Bob @ S and S HUNTCLUB

In The Ten Ring
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Re: Bolt will not unlock....what do I do?

Post by In The Ten Ring »

Will try this advice today!

I think I can see the inside part of the safety and it is not parallel with the outside safety.

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Re: Bolt will not unlock....what do I do?

Post by In The Ten Ring »

BREAKTHROUGH!

Well, not that one, but I think I was able to ascertain that it's not the safety blocking the bolt.

I peered through the receiver slot of my Model 8 and then I knew what to look for. The stuck bolt rifle's safety isn't moving independently of the lever...so locking lugs?

Now I tried the "upside down jiggle" but no luck. What now?

In The Ten Ring
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Re: Bolt will not unlock....what do I do?

Post by In The Ten Ring »

With the safety on, the bolt barely moves 1/16"

but with the safety off, the bolt moves nearly 1/2."

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jim18611865
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Re: Bolt will not unlock....what do I do?

Post by jim18611865 »

At this point it just has the be the link/action spring follower/action spring?
The stock is off now?
It doesn't look like a rusty mess, but inside the action spring tube, one never knows.

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S and S HUNTCLUB
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Re: Bolt will not unlock....what do I do?

Post by S and S HUNTCLUB »

Here's the pictures I promised. From the front face of the bolt carrier to the front tip of the extractor is approximately 1.260". I tried to replicate your bolt location in one of the pictures. Your location is approximately 1.140" as I measure. So, you do not have very far to go sir.

As you can see in such a short distance (.120") the bolt lug will rotate and free itself from the barrel head extension.

As I mentioned in my PM to you, I would remove the stock and remove the action spring assembly to release some of the pressure on the bolt link. Just like jim18611865 just mentioned in his response.

I had conversation about a year ago with 81 Police about the extreme "rotational torque" that the bolt assembly is under when the rifles are fired. If there is a burr in the cam pin slots, it can very easily shear a cam pin under the rotational torque when the rifle is fired.

Once you get the bolt assembly out. Take the time to disassemble it and hone all the surfaces. The cam pin holes in the bolt carrier can get a burr and that'll catch a cam pin under the rotational torque and shear it into two pieces.

Keep working it and take your time. You're so close!

Enjoy Life, Bob @ S and S HUNTCLUB
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In The Ten Ring
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Re: Bolt will not unlock....what do I do?

Post by In The Ten Ring »

Thanks for the pictures and help guys. I'll try and remove the stock springs tomorrow.

jim8008
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Re: Bolt will not unlock....what do I do?

Post by jim8008 »

You da man, S & S Bob. I got your package.

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S and S HUNTCLUB
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Re: Bolt will not unlock....what do I do?

Post by S and S HUNTCLUB »

jim8008 wrote:You da man, S & S Bob. I got your package.


Hey Jim, Are you talking about the POLICE GUN - PROPERTY OF CITY OF HOOD RIVER OREGON Remington Model 31 "Special Police" 12 GA. Shotgun and accessories? It's a beauty! :D It's the only one I know of from there. How do you find all those Rare & Collectable firearms? :lol:

Enjoy Life, Bob @ S and S HUNTCLUB

jim8008
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Re: Bolt will not unlock....what do I do?

Post by jim8008 »

I owe it all to you Bob. Just need the Model 11 now to complete the set.

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jack1653
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Re: Bolt will not unlock....what do I do?

Post by jack1653 »

Hey Jim,

And a good FBI model would really be nice. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Kindest Regards,

jack1653

jim8008
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Re: Bolt will not unlock....what do I do?

Post by jim8008 »

Yeah ... bring that early FBI rifle with you to Tulsa. I'll save the transfer.

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