Ejector Spring Replacement and another problem

Information on Malfunctions and Care of your Model 8 & 81
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DWalt
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Ejector Spring Replacement and another problem

Post by DWalt »

I had to order quite a few parts for various guns from Numrich, so I also ordered a new ejector and ejector spring for my M81. I had previously had problems with my 1949 M81, as once every 8-10 rounds there would be a failure to eject (or maybe the empty falling back into the open action as the bolt closed). Anyway, the ejector spring supplied by Numrich was overly long, and I had to go through the cut and try process to shorten the spring so that the plunger would not stick up above the bolt face at full compression. I had to cut back the spring about 3-1/2 turns using a Dremel tool and cutoff disc. The job was made a little easier by turning a punch from a piece of 1/4" steel rod with the small end about 1" long turned to the same diameter as the ejector retaining pin which was 0.077". It was much easier to remove instead of driving a short pin out every time - just clamp the shaft in a vise and twist and pull. Whether the new spring will improve things will have to wait a few weeks.

My other problem was with replacing the buttstock. Of course it had to be removed to disassemble the action in order to remove the bolt. The last time I removed the stock was to refinish the stock, During stock reassembly that time, I had a bit of a problem in getting the tang screw to start into the threaded hole on the action spring tube, but I eventually got it started after a few tries. This time during the reassembly I spent over an hour on it, with dozens of tries, and still can't get the screw to start. Yet, with the stock off, the stock retaining screw threads into the mating threaded hole on the spring tube very easily. I had to stop the effort out of frustration. Has anyone else had this problem and knows how to overcome it? It has turned into the most complicated part of the whole job. By the way, it appears there is a piece of metal tubing inside the stock's bolt hole, so I can't drill it out to a larger diameter to provide any slop.
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Wildgoose
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Re: Ejector Spring Replacement and another problem

Post by Wildgoose »

DWalt,
I had this same issue with my first M81. After many very fustrating days of efforts to get it started I went ahead and reamed the metal tube out to gain the extra slop needed to get the screw started. I have no idea what changed when the the stock was removed that caused the problem but I could not get the alignment correct to get that darn thing rethreaded again. :? I was afraid that I would cross thread it and have bigger problems to deal with. :roll:
That metal sleeve in the stock is made of a very soft steel and is easily reamed. I took my time and only removed enough to just get the angle I needed to get the screw started.
I feel your pain, a seemingly simple thing that for me defied every effort I made to get it back together with out having to modify the orginal assembly. Something I always try to avoid if at all possibe. I just finnaly gave up and got out the drill.
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Roger
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Re: Ejector Spring Replacement and another problem

Post by Roger »

I've had the same problem with model 8 s@ winch. M-1894 s,92 s, etc. I use a quick clamp grip type bar clamp to clamp the 2 tang pieces together against the buttstock. Problem is with the steep angle of the 81 grip area, it is very hard to fit a clamp in there with any success. I have however done it on an 81 with some success.
Thanks Roger
Roger
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DWalt
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Re: Ejector Spring Replacement and another problem

Post by DWalt »

I'll try the clamping trick first. If that doesn't work, I'll bore out the metal sleeve as a last resort. A job for tomorrow that I do not look forward to.
DWalt
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Re: Ejector Spring Replacement and another problem

Post by DWalt »

As this is a problem that others before me have experienced, I will record the easy solution here for posterity. It did not occur to me immediately, but after wasting another hour or so on the problem and a bit of hard looking, the solution came to me. I took my trusty Dremel tool (I can't function without it) and a small diameter abrasive grinding bit and relieved the bolt hole in the trigger-hammer-magazine assembly slightly. Do this only on the forward edge of the hole (toward the front), and work from the inside. It took several tries, as I did not want to remove any more metal than necessary. It works, and no problem at all in getting the threads started now.

Inspection showed it was not necessary to bore out the hole bushing in the stock, as it seemed to be aligned properly, as with the trigger-hammer assembly removed from the receiver, the screw went in through the stock and threaded perfectly, indicating that the misalignment was in the bolt hole in the assembly. Further examination showed it was at the front side of the hole.
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imfuncity
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Re: Ejector Spring Replacement and another problem

Post by imfuncity »

Good to know if'n get in that bind - thxs.
Though defensive violence will always be “a sad necessity” in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men. - St. Augustine
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Sarge756
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Re: Ejector Spring Replacement and another problem

Post by Sarge756 »

The problem with the alignment of the tang screw is common and one of those things that cause new cuss words to be invented. With a similar design the Remington 11`s and Browning A5`s will also give you a fit . The fine cut threads just refuse to connect unless aligned almost perfectly. They are easy to get cross threaded and account for many of the brazed pieces and "bastard" screws I`ve encountered while working on them.
I would caution you about reaching for the Dremel too quickly. The tight tolerance is there for a reason.The upper and lower tang are like two springs and close on the stock to give a tight fit. The screw and its aligned hole prevent movement under recoil also.
I went to the tool box to come up with something to keep the cuss words to a minimum. A pair of Vice-Grip pliers -(the clamp type used by welders with the expanded jaws) did the trick. Some small thick leather pieces at contact points and you can clamp the tangs down tight and drop the screw in and thread it up with ease.Hope this helps.
Joe
".......ain't many troubles that a man cain't fix
With seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."
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imfuncity
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Re: Ejector Spring Replacement and another problem

Post by imfuncity »

Ah, the why of it all! Thanks Sarge. (And I was about to check your Beetle Bailey Sarge *#%#* dictionary before going to the shop - one more delay thwarted.) :roll:
Though defensive violence will always be “a sad necessity” in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men. - St. Augustine
DWalt
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Re: Ejector Spring Replacement and another problem

Post by DWalt »

I actually tried something like that before I reached for the Dremel tool. I used a large C-clamp with duct tape to protect the metal. Clamping it down between the upper and lower tangs as much as I could with the stock in place still did not allow the screw to start. I also considered chucking the screw in my lathe and turning down the shaft diameter a bit behind the head, but I did not have to do that, as the Dremel tool trick worked.
Screwing the stock screw into place without the stock, it was obvious that there was a point of contact between the screw shaft and the hole in the lower tang at the forward end of the hole. That's why I trimmed a little relief there. It did not take much.
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Sarge756
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Re: Ejector Spring Replacement and another problem

Post by Sarge756 »

I agree with you Dewalt,the Dremel tool can be your best friend. I`m not opposed to doing a little trimming ,but it does need to be done with caution ....a little at a time. Sounds like with your experienced hand, you found it to be the "fix" and that`s good. Anything that works without upsetting the original integrity is the way to go. Keeping em shooting is the goal.
Joe
".......ain't many troubles that a man cain't fix
With seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."
DWalt
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Re: Ejector Spring Replacement and another problem

Post by DWalt »

I'm taking the M81 out tomorrow to see if the new ejector and spring will solve the original ejection problem. If it does it will all be worthwhile, if only for the educational experience.

Over more than 30 years, a Dremel tool has gotten me out of countless jams, and in fact I'm on my third one now.
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Roger
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Re: Ejector Spring Replacement and another problem

Post by Roger »

Dwalt ,glad it all seems to have worked out,so far. Let us know if it ejects etc. OK
Thanks for your time
Roger
Roger
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DWalt
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Re: Ejector Spring Replacement and another problem

Post by DWalt »

Today, of 25 rounds fired, there were no ejection failures. Accuracy was the typical 3" at 50 yards for 10 shots. Therefore if anyone has ejection problems, it's worth installing a new ejector plunger spring and ejector plunger. A simple job that won't cost much.
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Roger
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Re: Ejector Spring Replacement and another problem

Post by Roger »

Great news. I may try this if my m-81 that's caused trouble,continues to do so. Last time at the range,it ejected all but one rd. Out of quite a few. I just haven't had time to test again. I'm glad its working out for you,Dewalt. Have a great weekend everyone!
Thanks for your time,
Roger
Roger
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hiltu
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Re: Ejector Spring Replacement and another problem

Post by hiltu »

dwalt, ive taken my bolt out and was hoping it would be a no-brainer but i might as well had a rock jn my hand as i cant make sense of it at all. Are there directions, pictures, info on replacing the ejector spring?
DWalt
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Re: Ejector Spring Replacement and another problem

Post by DWalt »

Not too much of a trick to it. First, you must disassemble the receiver and remove the bolt and carrier. There is a small diameter transverse pin running through the lower bolt lug. Carefully drive it out with a punch allowing the ejector plunger and spring to pop out of the hole. Be careful you don't lose them. As I said, I had to cut the Numrich replacement spring back a few turns to allow the plunger to bottom below the bolt face. In reassembly, you should put the whole bolt assembly in a vise (padded), so you can push the plunger down with a larger diameter punch (I has a brass punch) and re-insert the transverse pin. That's not the easiest job in the world to do yourself, and a second pair of hands might help. To simplify doing the job all by myself, I turned a punch from a steel rod on my lathe having the small diameter of 0.077" in diameter (actually a tiny bit less than that so it went into the hole easily but was not a sloppy fit) so I would effectively have a long pin - i.e., a pilot pin, which would be more easily handled to get into the hole than the existing short pin. It could also be removed very easily as I could just grab onto it and pull it out while pushing down on the plunger.

Anyway, after I got the spring the right length, and the spring compressed with the plunger in place, I put in my home-made pilot pin in part way, then tapped in the original pin from the opposite side, driving out the long pilot pin - again, with the plunger pushed down a little. I could probably do the whole operation now faster than describing how it was done - but of course that was after some practice (I had to remove and replace the plunger and spring maybe 4 or 5 times in order to get the spring cut to the proper maximum length). You do have to have the proper orientation of the ejector plunger in the bolt hole, as the pin will go through only if the cutout in the plunger in in the right position. Then reassemble the action.

Many gun parts reassembly operations are facilitated by the use of a pilot pin, as the original short pins are somewhat difficult to handle, especially if they are of a small diameter. This is one of of those situations. Sometimes an existing pin punch can work OK as a pilot pin if you have one of the correct (or close to correct) diameter.
granpaws81
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Re: Ejector Spring Replacement and another problem

Post by granpaws81 »

I believe I may have the simple solution to the butt stock problem. The issue is actually with the stock. Mine was very difficult to get off. When I examined it I found the metal had deposited some type of black material. This does not belong there. I very caerefull sanded with a very finr grit being careful to take the black deposit and not the wood. I kept testing until the stock slid on with minor tapping, still very snug. The bolt went right in. I has tested putting the bolt through the tangs without the stock and found slight but adequate play to easily start the the bolt. Likewise the sleeve in the stock has more than than adequate play. To me that indicated the problem had to be the stock. Hope this helps.
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