Barrel sticking to the rear after firing (SOLVED !)

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cantgrowup
Posts: 129
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:27 am

Barrel sticking to the rear after firing (SOLVED !)

Post by cantgrowup »

Fired 10 rounds in my .25-35 Rem for first time this week (the one I discussed with the wooden "buffer" instead of a conventional steel buffer spring). I fired one round at a time for function testing and for each of the first five rounds, the barrel would remain in the full recoil position, with the bolt correctly locked to the rear.
Image
When I pushed at the rear of the barrel extension via the operating handle slot in the receiver, the barrel would return to its normal position in the shroud, ejecting the spent casing.

I tested the long recoil action with the rifle unloaded, by pressing the barrel to the rear with a dowel rod. The barrel and bolt assembly easily traveled to the rear of the receiver, and when I released pressure on the dowel rod, the bolt assembly remained locked to the rear and the barrel recoil spring returned the barrel to its normal position in the shroud.

Since nothing mechanical holds the barrel to the rear during the long recoil cycle, and a minor effort at prying the stuck barrel forward would return it and eject the spent casing, I surmised that the spent casing (which is held rigid in the bolt by the extractor) is apparently "sticking" to the chamber walls and thus holding the barrel to the rear. I tested this theory by applying a thin coating of grease on the case of the next five rounds. Upon firing each of these, the barrel would not stick and would return to battery and eject the spent casing. There are no marks on any of the case bodies suggesting that the chamber is not smooth. Therefore, I can only assume that the wooden "buffer" is not giving a push forward on the barrel at the end of the long-recoil cycle like a compressed steel buffer spring would, and the weak recoil spring itself is not strong enough to pull the barrel away from the bolt assembly and the expanded brass casing "stuck" against the chamber walls.

Your thoughts?
Last edited by cantgrowup on Mon May 31, 2021 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

MinnesotaDan
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Re: Barrel sticking to the rear after firing

Post by MinnesotaDan »

The scientific theory called "Occam's razor" holds that the simplest and most likely explanation is usually the correct one. If the buffer spring is not correct, and the barrel is not returning correctly, the odds are that the lack of buffer spring is the problem.

One sure way to find out: Replace the wooden "buffer" with the correct buffer spring. If it functions correctly, then that was the problem.

The hardest part of the most likely solution will be to find that spring.

chas1949
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Re: Barrel sticking to the rear after firing

Post by chas1949 »

I had one that did that quite a longtime ago. The solution was to run a large brass bore brush with cleaner in the chamber with a cordless drill on low speed for a few seconds. This cleaned and polished any residue from chamber. No more problem.

Rifleman
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Re: Barrel sticking to the rear after firing

Post by Rifleman »

Looking at your picture from the "Wanted" section of your Model 8 it looks like that round piece of wood while a short term partial solution to not having the proper spring has been taking a real beating for a while. It was an ingenious solution, but not totally able to replace the buffer spring. I'd as Minn Dan posted try to find and replace the wood with the proper spring and see if that takes care of the problem. Your theory makes sense and reason.

They aren't seen much, but I have seen the 25 buffer springs off and on on various sights. Put in a search for Rem Model 8 parts and a good half dozen sites that carry 8/81 parts come up. I did this once and checked as often as possible, sometimes every day. Ya never know when a 25 buffer spring will become available. I was doing this once in search of some receiver screws, didn't check one day, saw the screws available (at least showing on the site), called, but the guy said his website is a day behind. Ifin I'd checked the day I didn't search I'd have had them as they didn't sell until that evening. Early bird gets the worm comes to mind. I did search some sites this morning that I've used before looking for a 25 spring for ya, but nothing.

cantgrowup
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Re: Barrel sticking to the rear after firing

Post by cantgrowup »

Thanks guys. Yes... I will continue to look for the unicorn (.25 Rem buffer spring and washer). Hopefully someone on this forum has a spare for sale. In the meantime, I will polish the chamber..... and then try to make a replacement wood buffer if I can get access to a lathe.

Rifleman
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Re: Barrel sticking to the rear after firing

Post by Rifleman »

OK, Was, maybe still slightly confused. In your pics of your stripped barrel assembly and post you mentioned looking for the buffer spring and 'spacer washer'. I forgot to ask aboout it in my previous post. I see several have posted in your 'Wanted' post about the buffer spring and 'spacer washer'. You're not referring to the 'barrel nut washer' are you? From the picture it appears to be markings possibly left behind by the barrel nut, but in your posting you indicate that the washer in the picture (large splitlock washer) was in the barrel shroud with the 'wooden buffer wanna-be spring' sitting on top of it. I've never seen or read of a 'space washer' contained in a Model 8 barrel assembly unless it was present for 25,30, and 32 calibers, nor seen any part breakdown schematic's showing one.

Unless I'm uniformed, my guess is that whoever did the wooden buffer spring replace once upon a time put it in there so the wooden buffer spring fix would hold up longer as the wooden buffer replacement would possibly not hold up sitting alone in the shelf or ring inside the barrel shroud that the actual metal buffer spring sits on. Maybe they tried it without the spacer and the wooden plug didn't hold up well. I don't think a new wooden buffer would solve anything, be unreliable on any 2nd shots. Sort of like replacing a critical metal part in a engine with a potmetal one, the real buffer spring was designed as is due to the force and recoil involved.

That wooden buffer replacement isn't one ya can list with things as said in the old Timex watch commercials of yesterday, "Takes a beating and keeps on ticking"!

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Hibby83
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Re: Barrel sticking to the rear after firing

Post by Hibby83 »

Please refer to this post RMAN

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2452&sid=b4551ca4bd ... c7d9a58519
Rifleman wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 3:47 pm


OK, Was, maybe still slightly confused. In your pics of your stripped barrel assembly and post you mentioned looking for the buffer spring and 'spacer washer'. I forgot to ask aboout it in my previous post. I see several have posted in your 'Wanted' post about the buffer spring and 'spacer washer'. You're not referring to the 'barrel nut washer' are you? From the picture it appears to be markings possibly left behind by the barrel nut, but in your posting you indicate that the washer in the picture (large splitlock washer) was in the barrel shroud with the 'wooden buffer wanna-be spring' sitting on top of it. I've never seen or read of a 'space washer' contained in a Model 8 barrel assembly unless it was present for 25,30, and 32 calibers, nor seen any part breakdown schematic's showing one.

Unless I'm uniformed, my guess is that whoever did the wooden buffer spring replace once upon a time put it in there so the wooden buffer spring fix would hold up longer as the wooden buffer replacement would possibly not hold up sitting alone in the shelf or ring inside the barrel shroud that the actual metal buffer spring sits on. Maybe they tried it without the spacer and the wooden plug didn't hold up well. I don't think a new wooden buffer would solve anything, be unreliable on any 2nd shots. Sort of like replacing a critical metal part in a engine with a potmetal one, the real buffer spring was designed as is due to the force and recoil involved.

That wooden buffer replacement isn't one ya can list with things as said in the old Timex watch commercials of yesterday, "Takes a beating and keeps on ticking"!

Rifleman
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Re: Barrel sticking to the rear after firing

Post by Rifleman »

Reference the link by Hibby83-------- Well I'll Be.......!!!!!! First I've ever heard of read of this. Course I've only been reading and shooting two 81's in the last 3-4 years, but have never seen or heard, not even in Henwoods book of the wooden plugs substituting for the metal recoil springs. I've read as much as I've been able to come across since then, books, magazines, internet, etc. I'm a Savage 99 lever gun nut too and over on two of the Savage forums in regards to the 99's when some oddity with those rifles comes along and throws a curve into usual knowledge it's always penned "With Savage Never Say Never"! Who knows why the wooden replacements, Remington may have been trying to cut costs, ran into a shortage of springs, maybe, maybe , maybe is all that probably will ever be known. IMO the metal springs are light years ahead in reliability and action. Be interesting if someone can find some info on the why and when.

That post by 'uhjohnson' reference that possibly Remington didn't think the 25 caliber had the heavy recoil needful of a metal buffer spring as the metal ones that were installed could be compressed by hand and that the wooden plug was used to take up the space and that the recoil spring was all that was needed. That ran across my mind as I was reading the link before I got to 'uhjohnsons' post. At a later date possible after finding the wood plug didn't suffice, Remington went back to the metal spring.

cantgrowup
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Re: Barrel sticking to the rear after firing

Post by cantgrowup »

I say I'm looking for a .25 Rem buffer spring AND washer(s) because in my only other .25 Rem Model 8, there was a weak buffer spring (I could compress it with my fingers, unlike any other 8/81 caliber spring) AND two solid "spacer" washers on the receiver end of the buffer spring. None of my other 8/81 caliber rifles had spacer washers adjacent to the buffer spring. I asked on the forum and other .25 Rem owners said that their rifles had a spacer washer. Nobody mentioned two like mine had.

kenhwind
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Re: Barrel sticking to the rear after firing

Post by kenhwind »

My 25-35 Model 8 has the wood plug no buffer spring and works just fine.
I'm not convinced that the 25 Rem Model 8 had a buffer spring.
KEN

9.3shooter
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Re: Barrel sticking to the rear after firing

Post by 9.3shooter »

cantgrowup wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 5:43 pm
I say I'm looking for a .25 Rem buffer spring AND washer(s) because in my only other .25 Rem Model 8, there was a weak buffer spring (I could compress it with my fingers, unlike any other 8/81 caliber spring) AND two solid "spacer" washers on the receiver end of the buffer spring. None of my other 8/81 caliber rifles had spacer washers adjacent to the buffer spring. I asked on the forum and other .25 Rem owners said that their rifles had a spacer washer. Nobody mentioned two like mine had.
As per my other thread I got my .25 barrel assembly apart today and found inside the same as yours, two solid washers, buffer spring, case, spring, washer, bushing and nut. And a lot of rust!
Took me about 3 days of off and on work to get it apart but with the help of PB Blaster, a heat gun, your tool, and some muscle we got er done. See my other thread for pics.

cantgrowup
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Re: Barrel sticking to the rear after firing

Post by cantgrowup »

I've made a new wood buffer from a 7/8" wooden dowel rod and drilled it out with a 9/16" spade bit. I also polished the chamber and will try to fire the gun again before trying the spring. If it functions with the new wood buffer, I might just leave it be.

chas1949
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Re: Barrel sticking to the rear after firing

Post by chas1949 »

Numrick gun parts gives the dimensions of the buffer springs for each caliber. I have a 25-35 that had a split washer spacer under spring. Spring was short per spec and washer brought the length into spec.

cantgrowup
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Re: Barrel sticking to the rear after firing (SOLVED !)

Post by cantgrowup »

Yesterday, I tried my new wood buffer that I made from a 7/8" wood dowel rod. I had also polished the chamber with a large bronze bore brush with a little Flitz paste on a patch using a drill motor. Fired 10 rounds with no problems. Gun functioned perfectly.

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Hibby83
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Re: Barrel sticking to the rear after firing (SOLVED !)

Post by Hibby83 »

cantgrowup wrote:
Mon May 31, 2021 10:29 am
Yesterday, I tried my new wood buffer that I made from a 7/8" wood dowel rod. I had also polished the chamber with a large bronze bore brush with a little Flitz paste on a patch using a drill motor. Fired 10 rounds with no problems. Gun functioned perfectly.
woohoo

good job getting it back into service, that's great to hear!

Perhaps I'll check some auto-parts stores about that valve spring to see if it can be had without expensive shipping.

Rifleman
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Re: Barrel sticking to the rear after firing (SOLVED !)

Post by Rifleman »

Hey "cantgrowup"----how is the Model 8 working since your last post with your homemade wooden buffer? I reached out to the 'old time and knowledgeable' gunsmith that I advised you about in my area and he said that was a new one on him. Checked with another 'old time' website gunsmith that posted alot of old time fixes and information in the past, but never heard back. Various off and on site searches hasn't yielded anything either ref parts you could use or any other forums talking about wooden buffers in early Model 8's. Glad ya got it up and working.

Curious, what type of wood did you make your new buffer from? Could you tell what the old one was made from? Hard, medium, or a softer wood. Guess a harder wood such as hickory could take a beating better, but a softer wood could absorb the recoil better, but not be as durable. Wish some info could be found on why Remington did the wood buffer back in the day--hasn't kept be awake at night, but curious as a cat.

cantgrowup
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Re: Barrel sticking to the rear after firing (SOLVED !)

Post by cantgrowup »

Well.... after reading all the other posts on wood buffers in .25-35 Rem guns, I have decided that it was definitely a factory installation. Why? We may and probably will never know. I believe that the original buffer in my gun and these others was made from oak. But since I was fishing for solutions, I just took a Home Depot fir 7/8" dowel to make a replacement and it worked fine. I think that my old oak buffer was deformed from recoil... and the chamber may have been dirty. After polishing the chamber with Flitz and using the new fir dowel buffer, the gun functioned for 10 rounds. Since then, it went back into the safe with all my other Model 8/81s and won't get shot very often in the future.

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