Model 141 - .35 Rem

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J. Riekers
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Model 141 - .35 Rem

Post by J. Riekers » Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:31 pm

Just got this one from 1937:

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45guy
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Re: Model 141 - .35 Rem

Post by 45guy » Sat Dec 25, 2010 4:22 pm

That is a beautiful hunk of walnut on there!
"The sound of shot sweeping through the air toward you is impressive though. I'll give you that. It's like being swatted with the broom of God."

duanew
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Re: Model 141 - .35 Rem

Post by duanew » Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:50 pm

An absolutely beautiful rifle.

If you don't mind my asking, where did you find it. And what did you pay for it (in case I find something in this condition and want to buy it what is a reasonable price?)

Have you shot it yet?

How is the recoil for a 200 grain 35 Remington load in that light of a rifle?

Thank you

Duane

DWalt
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Re: Model 141 - .35 Rem

Post by DWalt » Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:29 pm

I'd like a nice 14 or 141, but I don't see them often, and the ones I do see are usually well-used. Back when I was a kid, they were commonly seen in the hands of hunters, but apparently not so now. I always liked the cartridge case head in the hole in the receiver. Wonder why Remington did not follow this practice in the Model 8/81 which used the same calibers?

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imfuncity
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Re: Model 141 - .35 Rem

Post by imfuncity » Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:15 am

The case heads are cool for sure.

There were several 141's selling on GB back in the spring, mainly under $400. But haven't been following them since 'bout May. 14's more rare, $100 or so more.
Though defensive violence will always be “a sad necessity” in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men. - St. Augustine

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81police
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Re: Model 141 - .35 Rem

Post by 81police » Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:17 am

Joe,

I bet it doesn't take long for that rifle to drop some Texas exotics!
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ctgodog
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Re: Model 141 - .35 Rem

Post by ctgodog » Fri Oct 07, 2011 12:22 pm

Does this rifle use the rimless cartridge?

Clint
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imfuncity
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Re: Model 141 - .35 Rem

Post by imfuncity » Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:24 pm

Si. Same as M8/81 - 35Rem.
Though defensive violence will always be “a sad necessity” in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men. - St. Augustine

duanew
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Re: Model 141 - .35 Rem

Post by duanew » Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:49 pm

Regarding model 14 versus 141, I have read that 141s left several components out that steadied the barrel in an attempt to reduce production costs.

With all things being equal except for perhaps price (a comparable 14 would be more), would you prefer owning a 14 or 141 if you could find either.l

Furthermore, I still haven't heard feedback regarding how this light of a carbine handles (recoils) when a 35 remington pushing a 200 grain bullet is used.

Duane

ctgodog
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Re: Model 141 - .35 Rem

Post by ctgodog » Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:35 pm

There are a couple of nice ones on GunBroker right now.....

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =254691338

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =254880995

What does the twist in the magazine extension do or represent??? Is it a functional feature, or just there for looks???

Clint
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ctgodog
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Re: Model 141 - .35 Rem

Post by ctgodog » Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:38 pm

These rifles remind me of my Fieldmaster 22LR pump.....same similar design!!!

Clint
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81police
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Re: Model 141 - .35 Rem

Post by 81police » Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:47 pm

Clint,

I'm not a 14/141 guy but I've heard the twist in the magazine tube was to offset the primer from being in line with the nose of the cartridge behind it. So no chance of accidental discharge. Again somebody help me here I'm a 14/141 amateur!?
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jack1653
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Re: Model 141 - .35 Rem

Post by jack1653 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:00 pm

Hey Guys,

I know where there are some 14, 141, and Standard Arms rifles. At least they were available a few months ago. If you are seriously interested, I can contact the gentleman and see if he would still like to sell them. This would be a non-negotiated price and you would have to pay his asking price plus shipping. He wil require an FFL. This may not seem fair, but the gentleman is in very poor health and was selling the rifles to meet medical expenses. I will not entertain any idea of trying to take advantage of him. He is an honest gentleman and a man of his word. He does not have a computer and has no way of sending pictures. I have bought rifles from him in the past and his descriptions were spot on and his prices were more than fair. I have seen the rifles in his home and they appeared to be in better than average conditon. 81police can also vouch for this gentleman. I am not receiving anything for arranging the transaction nor would I entertain any offer.

If you want me to contact the gentleman, please send me an email at jack1653@att.net or send me a PM.

Regards,

jack1653

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imfuncity
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Re: Model 141 - .35 Rem

Post by imfuncity » Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:25 pm

Had not heard that before, Cam. Makes some sense - Like.

Been awhile since I shoot mine but I don't recall the recoil being anymore then the M8/81 - and I'm definitely recoil sensitive.
Though defensive violence will always be “a sad necessity” in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men. - St. Augustine

sighthound
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Re: Model 141 - .35 Rem

Post by sighthound » Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:21 pm

That twist in magazine tube was to offset cartridges so they did not line up with bullet point against primer of cartridge ahead, thus preventing an accidental discharge from a jaring or blow to the rifle. Have never seen this feature on any other tubular magazine rifle. Jerry

DWalt
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Re: Model 141 - .35 Rem

Post by DWalt » Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:16 am

The "Twisted" Model 14 tubular magazine was indeed intended for offsetting primers from pointed bullet noses to prevent possible chain-firing of primers under recoil. There was a good article in one of the older Gun Digests about this, and it also related some simulated testing done in attempt to get cartridges to fire in a tubular magazine (non-twisted,like in the Winchester M94) with spitzer bullets - it couldn't be done. Back in the early 20th century, there were also special double-cup protected primers made and loaded in .30-30 and similar cartridges, also with the intent of preventing chain fires in tubular magazines resulting from the use of spitzer bullets.

Remington also made another pump rifle model, very similar to the Model 14 (don't remember the model designation, however), chambered for the .38-40 and .44-40. I have seen a few of those. (I just checked - this is the Remington Model 14-1/2)

One trick some users of the venerable .30-30 Winchester and Marlin lever actions use to this day is to load spitzer bullets (which have much superior ballistics characteristics than RN or flat nose bullets), putting one round in the chamber and one in the magazine, making it a two-shot repeater. OK if you are a good shot.

sighthound
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Re: Model 141 - .35 Rem

Post by sighthound » Sat Oct 08, 2011 10:09 am

Another Remington tubular magazine pump action is the model 25 chambered for 25-20. Jerry

ctgodog
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Re: Model 141 - .35 Rem

Post by ctgodog » Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:50 am

Thanks for your input and answers guys....very interesting rifles!!

Clint
[b][color=#0040FF]Time is the Essence of Life, Wine, and Great Guns[/color][/b]

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jack1653
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Re: Model 141 - .35 Rem

Post by jack1653 » Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:24 pm

Hey Guys,

I am not going to be able to get the 14 and 141's. When I called today to check on the availability, I was saddened to learn that my friend had passed away on September 22, 2011. Some of you may have known him or purchased a Model 8 or 81 from him. Mr. Joe Frankie was a kind and honest gentleman who loved guns of any type. He was a man of his word and if there was any issue with any gun he sold, he would make it right. He had a particular fondness for the Remington rifles.

I am sure all of you join me in giving condolences to his widow and his son.

Regards,

Jack1653

ctgodog
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Re: Model 141 - .35 Rem

Post by ctgodog » Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:30 pm

Sorry to hear that about your friend....God Bless!!

Clint
[b][color=#0040FF]Time is the Essence of Life, Wine, and Great Guns[/color][/b]

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81police
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Re: Model 141 - .35 Rem

Post by 81police » Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:15 pm

Thanks for informing us all Jack in regards to Joe's passing away. Indeed he was a very nice gentleman to talk to and had a love for old autoloaders. He will be missed.
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duanew
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Re: Model 141 - .35 Rem

Post by duanew » Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:09 pm

Actually, I am interested in owning one of these fine firearms and may have an opportunity to do so.

Does anyone who has owned and fired one of these have any input into a preference between the model 14 & 141?

Also, has anyone who owns one of these in 35 Remington done much shooting with it?

How is the recoil? How shootable and pleasant is this rifle?

Duane

duanew
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Re: Model 141 - .35 Rem

Post by duanew » Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:15 pm

Does that mean that the model 14/141 can is not restricted to blunt or flat projectiles in its tube, and that it can actually be loaded effectively with spire point ammunition?

Duane

DWalt
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Re: Model 141 - .35 Rem

Post by DWalt » Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:07 pm

Yes. However, I don't think there was much (if any) Remington factory-loaded spitzer bullet ammunition made, but it may have been available in the early days. I do know that Winchester loaded round-nose bullets as well as flat nose. And of course there have always been handloaders around who could load whatever bullet style they wanted. The only restriction would have been with keeping cartridge length to no more than the maximum that would feed through the action.

duanew
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Re: Model 141 - .35 Rem

Post by duanew » Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:14 pm

Cool!

That is really neat!!!

A spitzer from a tube-fed rifle - who would have guessed?

As many rifles as I have looked at and studied, I certainly didn't know this.

Very neat indeed!

Thanks

Duane

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Sarge756
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Re: Model 141 - .35 Rem

Post by Sarge756 » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:57 pm

Duane, Differences in the two models 14 and 141 are similar to the difference in our 8 and 81`s. Same design with some refinements on the 141 such as thicker forearm and a longer barrel. Recoil is about the same as the 8/81`s and not unpleasant. Bonus is that a scope is easily mounted with Weaver top mounts centered in line with the bore. Easy to carry,fast handling in a powerful caliber...............What`s not to like?
Joe
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With seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."

ctgodog
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Re: Model 141 - .35 Rem

Post by ctgodog » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:36 am

I am also thinking that I would like to own one of these beauties.....I NEED one!!! OR two!!!!!

Clint
[b][color=#0040FF]Time is the Essence of Life, Wine, and Great Guns[/color][/b]

duanew
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Re: Model 141 - .35 Rem

Post by duanew » Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:18 pm

I had read somewhere (possibly in Remington's own history, or in a site dedicated to such), that the 141 was actually not so much "refined", but "reduced" by the removal of two barrel supports, in an effort to reduce costs and still keep the line alive since Remington had chambered its pump-action rifles not for common calibers, but instead for its own proprietary calibers.

That is why I asked the question about 14 versus 141 - which would someone who knew these firearms well and perhaps owned one of each, like better.

Of these fine rifles nowadays, the only caliber I would really consider owning in either of them would be the Rem. 35, as it appears to be the best of the cartridges Remington chambered these rifles in.

Duane

duanew
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Re: Model 141 - .35 Rem

Post by duanew » Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:20 pm

In terms of the Model 8 verus the Model 81, I noticed that the 81's stock, etc., appears to be somewhat beefier/heavier.

Would you seek out a Model 81 versus an 8, if an 8 was available due to the improvements made there, or would you consider the Model 8 as an "equivalent" rifle?

What would the "drawbacks" of the 8 be?

Duane

DWalt
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Re: Model 141 - .35 Rem

Post by DWalt » Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:16 pm

One could start a real debate re M8 vs. M81. Mechanically, there is little difference. Personal feeling is that the later (post-WWII) Model 81s would be my preference, principally because the metal and wood finishes are likely to be in better cosmetic condition, and are unlikely to have rusted-out bores from shooting corrosive-primed ammunition. However, my neighbor has a minty M8 in .30 Rem that I have been unable to talk him out of for over 4 years, as it has aesthetically more pleasing lines to me than the M81.

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imfuncity
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Re: Model 141 - .35 Rem

Post by imfuncity » Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:43 pm

I'm with DWalt, "aesthetically more pleasing lines to me". It is basically a matter of personal preference - I have not noticed a difference when shooting.
Though defensive violence will always be “a sad necessity” in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men. - St. Augustine

ctgodog
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Re: Model 141 - .35 Rem

Post by ctgodog » Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:31 pm

Well,...due to the interest created by this conversation about 14's and 141's, I have been looking for them on auction sites (purely on a research interest). I have found a few in varying conditions. Some nice and some not so nice. I stopped in at the Springfield, Or., Cabella's to pick up some needed hunting items, and checked out the used guns while I was there. There was one Rem 14 that was in "well used" condition. It had a chunk broken off the rear left side of the fore arm, and cracks in the receiver/grip area of the butt stock with a screw or pin inserted to hold it together, and ground off smooth to match the contour of the stock. The metal wasn't to bad for its' age, nice used /worn look, no rust or pitting. I appeared that it had spent quite a bit of time in a saddle scabbard, as the front half of the receiver showed more bluing than the rear half. There was a definite tan line. At least I got to handle one and play with the action.

Maybe someday......

Clint
[b][color=#0040FF]Time is the Essence of Life, Wine, and Great Guns[/color][/b]

ctgodog
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Re: Model 141 - .35 Rem

Post by ctgodog » Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:41 pm

I agree with Dwalt and Imfuncity,

I also think that the stock lines of the 8 are sleeker than the 81 pistol grip. Having made that statement,...and checking the rifles in my gun cabinet....every one of them have the pistol grip stock except my Model 8's and my Rossi 22 LR pump. I still stand by my previous statement, however!!!

Clint
[b][color=#0040FF]Time is the Essence of Life, Wine, and Great Guns[/color][/b]

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Roger
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Re: Model 141 - .35 Rem

Post by Roger » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:51 am

Regarding the recoil of rem -14 s in 35 rem. I own one that came from a colorado ranch. It was used for mule deer hunting its whole life. I used it for whitetail Jan. Antlerless season here in Iowa@ noticed a slight increase in recoil over my rem-8 's. I really noticed it in my bench shooting while testing @ working up loads for it. By the way, I kil deer every yr. With my 8/81 s, but missed every shot I took with the rem.14. Guess it doesn't fit me very well. It was very accurite off the bench when testing loads. As usual it prolly was operator error!!! ---Roger
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Wildgoose
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Re: Model 141 - .35 Rem

Post by Wildgoose » Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:17 am

Roger wrote:Regarding the recoil of rem -14 s in 35 rem. I own one that came from a colorado ranch. It was used for mule deer hunting its whole life. I used it for whitetail Jan. Antlerless season here in Iowa@ noticed a slight increase in recoil over my rem-8 's. I really noticed it in my bench shooting while testing @ working up loads for it. By the way, I kil deer every yr. With my 8/81 s, but missed every shot I took with the rem.14. Guess it doesn't fit me very well. It was very accurite off the bench when testing loads. As usual it prolly was operator error!!! ---Roger
I have two Model 14's in my Remington collection. Both are as yours more than accurate enough off the bench. But for hunting with my old eyes the sights are pretty fine and under field conditions I am afraid that I would have to have the deer pretty darn close to make a sure shot. Not sure that I will ever use one for a hunt. I have put tang sights on one of my 81's and my only 8 and do plan on hunting with those. I have been keeping an eye out for a tang sight for the M 14's but the few that have been on E-bay go for more than I am willing to pay.

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