Movie ref Frank Hamer/Bonnie&Clyde

Talk about things other than the Model 8's and 81's
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Rifleman
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Movie ref Frank Hamer/Bonnie&Clyde

Post by Rifleman » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:43 pm

Not sure where to post this, probably should have been on Model 8 board, but guess all 8/81 fans might be interested. Saw a movie preview on Sheriff Jim Wilson's FaceBook page today (Sheriff Wilson former Sheriff in Texas, writer for Shooting Times, current writer and rep on NRA American Rifleman magazine and website). Has to do with movie slated for release starring Kevin Costner as Texas Ranger Frank Hamer and the taking out of Bonnie and Clyde. Some of the scenes showed him shooting a BAR Monitor model and Model 8. Slated for release on 'Netflex' on March 29th. Why Netflex, I don't know. Not a subscriber, don't know if it will be in general theatres or not. Might have to wait for DVD, hope it comes out on that. You can google the movie titled "The Highway Men" and see several previews. One comment was that Costner wanted the movie to portray the real circumstances and weapons used back in the hunt for and taking out of B and C. Previews looked good. About all I know.

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Bandersnatch
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Re: Movie ref Frank Hamer/Bonnie&Clyde

Post by Bandersnatch » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:27 pm

Saved to the list....
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81police
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Re: Movie ref Frank Hamer/Bonnie&Clyde

Post by 81police » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:31 am

Here is the trailer. The shootout scene, like every other film of the like, is botched with incorrect posse firearms. This one shows a Winchester 1907 w/ 10 round magazine and a Thompson SMG :x :roll:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aH6vC-BBKOc
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canuck
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Re: Movie ref Frank Hamer/Bonnie&Clyde

Post by canuck » Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:16 pm

Just watched it on Netflix - I liked it!
Hamer took his Model 8 when he left home to go on the manhunt, and used it in the final shootout scene.
Even the wife recognized it - "thats just like the ones you have" !!

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Roger
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Re: Movie ref Frank Hamer/Bonnie&Clyde

Post by Roger » Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:57 am

Hey guys, I actually watched the Hamer movie twice this weekend. It was great entertainment. But I'm pretty sure they took some artistic license with their version of the story. As far as who used what firearms at the ambush, we'll never really know the true answers. All of the participants who were still alive at the end of the day,kept changing their stories. I thought it was quite odd that Netflix chose to have Deputy Prentiss Oakley using a Winchester 1907 -.351, with an extended magazine. I guess I always believed that he used Dr. Henry Shehee's model 8???. Oh well ,it was a well made movie,great acting by Harrelson and Costner,and very entertaining. I did think that Kathy Bates character as the Texas governor,was a bit overdone.
Thanks for your time,
Roger
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fpgt72
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Re: Movie ref Frank Hamer/Bonnie&Clyde

Post by fpgt72 » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:00 am

Roger wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:57 am
Hey guys, I actually watched the Hamer movie twice this weekend. It was great entertainment. But I'm pretty sure they took some artistic license with their version of the story. As far as who used what firearms at the ambush, we'll never really know the true answers. All of the participants who were still alive at the end of the day,kept changing their stories. I thought it was quite odd that Netflix chose to have Deputy Prentiss Oakley using a Winchester 1907 -.351, with an extended magazine. I guess I always believed that he used Dr. Henry Shehee's model 8???. Oh well ,it was a well made movie,great acting by Harrelson and Costner,and very entertaining. I did think that Kathy Bates character as the Texas governor,was a bit overdone.
Thanks for your time,
Roger
I agree, it was a good movie, and some....cough artistic license....did come in there, but over all it was a darn good movie.

They really glassed over the Ma Fergeson deal, do some checking on those two....Ma and Pa....about as bent as they come....and she really did nothing, it was Pa calling all the shots....and everyone knew it.

The one thing I did notice about the 8 in the film, was.....and going off of memory now, I think it was an 8 and not an 81, it also had the standard mag, not the extended. I think it would have been easy to pull a gun like we see usually linked to this event, with the long magazine, and the stamps....but we know it could not have been that. Really makes me think.....why did they make that choice and then go with some things that they got flat wrong...like the Thompson.

All in all it was a good and powerful movie.

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81police
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Re: Movie ref Frank Hamer/Bonnie&Clyde

Post by 81police » Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:30 pm

Really makes me think.....why did they make that choice and then go with some things that they got flat wrong...like the Thompson.

2 reasons. 1) There is so much misinformation about the ambush from print to video going back many many years. 2) The guns consistently thought to be used are probably too boring for modern viewers. Riot length shotguns, standard Model 8's, a BAR (not a Colt Monitor), etc. Perhaps these aren't "cool" enough for the big screen?
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Roger
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Re: Movie ref Frank Hamer/Bonnie&Clyde

Post by Roger » Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:30 am

Being bored to tears last night,I decided to watch the Hamer movie again. I wanted to see what,(if anything) I missed in details. The first thing that I noticed, was in the gun shop scene. There are 2model 8 Remingtons, on the gunracks behind the counter. There may have been more. You really only get small views to look at. I find this interesting to say the least. Also,the guns purchased by Hamer, represent a collection of many types of firearms for the period. Would one small neighborhood shop, even in a major metro area, have that many expensive guns in stock? By the way, I don't think that they ever tell us where this shop was located.
The other thing that seems odd is that they barely even touch on Prentiss Oakley. Ted Hinton seems to be their pet sidekick to Hamer and Gault. The other participants barely rate a mention.
Sorry , just the rambling of an old remodeling contractor from Iowa.
Thanks for your time
Roger
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fpgt72
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Re: Movie ref Frank Hamer/Bonnie&Clyde

Post by fpgt72 » Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:32 am

The gun shop scene while a good scene in a movie, is really out of place. The monitor was a pretty special bit of kit. I want to say back then they cost around $500 I just ran it through an internet inflation calculator and it is almost $10,000 in todays money. The Thompson was $3,700....that is a great deal of money for what looks like a small town gun shop....I really doubt a small shop would have that stuff just hanging on the wall....and the monitor was not made in large amounts.

I put this down to movie making.

jl7422
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Re: Movie ref Frank Hamer/Bonnie&Clyde

Post by jl7422 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:56 am

Agreed. The Colt Monitor was (in my research) never offered for sale to the general public, and was not intended to be (much like the Special Police line of 8/81's). There is speculation that Hamer was loaned one by the FBI field office and that he may have had it present at the ambush.

kenhwind
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Re: Movie ref Frank Hamer/Bonnie&Clyde

Post by kenhwind » Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:49 pm

fpgt72 wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:32 am
The gun shop scene while a good scene in a movie, is really out of place. The monitor was a pretty special bit of kit. I want to say back then they cost around $500 I just ran it through an internet inflation calculator and it is almost $10,000 in todays money. The Thompson was $3,700....that is a great deal of money for what looks like a small town gun shop....I really doubt a small shop would have that stuff just hanging on the wall....and the monitor was not made in large amounts.

I put this down to movie making.
I haven't seen this movie but there is a thread on the Colt Forum too. And I have my doubts too about Frank Hamer walking into a gun shop to buy a Colt Monitor and a Thompson. The price of a Thompson was about $200.00 at the time. Contrary to movie mythology they weren't that popular.
KEN

fpgt72
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Re: Movie ref Frank Hamer/Bonnie&Clyde

Post by fpgt72 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:19 am

As I remember the BAR was on loan from the US Army, I want to say sources agree there was no thompson.

It was really a different time....."fully automatic" really had about the same appeal as it did before 1986....as in yea you can buy one but why. It really is just a noise maker.

I really think if not for the 1986 deal "machine guns" would be about as popular as they where in 1985.....as in yea they are out there but who really cares.....fast forward 30 years down the road and no new ones....and now they are forbidden.....we can't get one easy, they are super expensive....and like a child saying you can't have that cookie the size of an extra large pizza....he really really wants it....we know it really is not the best idea, but that means nothing to that child looking at that cookie. He wants it and wants it bad. Now if we say you can have the cookie, he will grab it and eat the entire thing....and a little while later will go....you know this really is not that much fun....it was expensive, and it is expensive to feed....eh.

The 86 law was a real mistake....huge, and it will never EVER be changed....for one reason and one reason only....those that are sitting on these items would see them lose 90% of their value over night....and those people....would not stand still for that to happen.

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Adam Lee
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Re: Movie ref Frank Hamer/Bonnie&Clyde

Post by Adam Lee » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:35 am

The Highwaymen had its inaccuracies, but the acting and story were really good. Beyond the faults and artistic license, I didn't like the depiction of Bonnie's behavior and I won't reveal why. It's a big element of this movie, but nobody knows if this was true or not.

The guns were great to see, regardless of being wrong!

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cantgrowup
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Re: Movie ref Frank Hamer/Bonnie&Clyde

Post by cantgrowup » Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:47 pm

Old thread, but I thought I'd throw my two cents in. I liked the feel of the movie in that I think it captured the era well (from what I imagine and have read of the era). But there was way too much poetic license and ignoring of actual history (e.g., Hamer never talked to old man Henry Barrow at the garage... there was no wild car chase in a dusty field, and so on and so on.)

The only guns that we know the posse had for sure are the ones filmed on the death car roof after immediately the ambush. You can clearly see the half-pistol grip of the Model 8 (that was reportedly borrowed from Shehee and used by Oakley), three Remington Model 11 short-barreled shotguns, and the military configuration BAR borrowed by Hinton from the Texas National Guard. The recreation of the ambush with Hinton and Alcorn filmed the next day or so, shows Hinton with a military BAR (probably the same one on the car roof) and Alcorn holding a straight stock Model 8. Maney Gault also supposedly used a Model 8 in .30 Rem (according to the Waco "Texas Rangers Museum"), but since Hamer and Gaut left Arcadia the same evening of the ambush, that was probably not the one used by Alcorn in the ambush recreation film.

There is absolutely no evidence to other weapons other than hearsay. I assume there were several Colt 1911's and maybe a few more Model 8s (possibly Hamer's old Ranger issue .25 Rem or another .30 Rem, but most likely not his famous Remington presentation engraved model) and maybe a few more Model 11s. I've read where Jordan or someone else may have had a Win '94.

Anyway... I love trying to research this subject and welcome any discussion.

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