a question

Talk about things other than the Model 8's and 81's
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mr mike
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 7:48 pm

a question

Post by mr mike »

Last week I was in the "big" city with the wife (Seattle)
While she was in a store looking around I wandered across the street to a small place I noted at the last
moment. A gun shop. It was small with bars on the doors and windows and at least one security camera.

Going inside the salesman was working with a customer so I just sort of eyeballed the place. I was
thinking ( wishing maybe?) there might be one of those "miracle" models 8's people sometimes post on here about.
You know, an "E" or "F" grade rifle for fifty bucks or so.
No luck on this day. The conversation between the customer and sales guy caught my attention.
On the counter I was to learn was a really nice looking 1873 Winchester 44-40WCF manufactured in 1893.
It had the octagon barrell and looked realy clean for its age. This was the first one I'd ever (seen being a newbie.)
The store wanted about three grand for the gun. What caught my attention was this letter the salesman had.
It was from Winchester, the factory, and had the dates the gun was made and where it had been shipped. I thought
that was pretty interesting.

Seeing my bride through the window, across the street, looking for me, I had to leave. Didn't hear how the sale turned out.
That night after I got home, I went on line and read up on the 44-40. The "gun that won the west" it was called.
They made a heck of a lot of them. Factory ammo was still available, or you can load your own. Interesting.
From there I went to a couple of gun auction sights, GUNBROKER and so forth.
I found nearly fifty examples of that rifle for sale. Prices varied from 1,200 dollars or so up to one that
the seller asked $ 23,000. Interesting to me was perhaps a third of those guns, maybe a few more, had
lots of individual history with them. Many of them had those letters from Winchester that I'd seen earlier that day.
Kind of like a "birth certificate". A large number also had letters from Winchester giving details of maintenace and repair history whenever the gun was returned to the factory. Moreover a number of these rifles had notorized letters and in some case's photos showing the rifle with original owners and documented history up to the present time.

I was amazed at the amount of individual history provided with some of these rifles.
All this got me to wondering why don't we see this in the model 8 community? For the most part it seems (to me)
we buy guns from dealers or at gun shows or pawn shops. Theres almost never any history with our model 8's
Its like their all "orphans." The only exceptions seem to be rifles passed down in familys.
I just purchased a model 8 recently that was manfactured in 1930. It looks like its never been fired. My local gun shop
thinks the blueing is Original ( as near as he can tell)
I got it from a dealer, a nice enough fellow, but with absolutely no history. Whats up with that? Is this just the nature of our gun community? Does Remington provide any of those letters such as I saw with Winchester 44-40?

As a "newbie" collecter/ shooter thought I'd ask. Perhaps some of the old hands can comment on this.
One thing I've learned, the Winchester 44-40CWF is a sweet looking rifle. I was thinking earlier about the
Marlin 336 but if I decide to buy another shooter outside of the model 8 family, might want to take another
look at the Winchester. That octagon barrel is pretty nice.! :D
sighthound
Posts: 233
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 11:39 am

Re: a question

Post by sighthound »

Hello Mr Mike,
Sometimes one does have an opportunity to get history with a collection piece or shooter. For example I once had a very nice FN 1900 that came from Sweden via a Mormon missionary, history provided by seller said piece had been awarded as a prize in early 1930s and had had an engraved plate on stock indicating for what, however, the seller, the son of match winner kept the plate. Once had a very nice 8 and story was it had been willed to a grandson and soon sold to a dealer soon after. Have another FN 1900 that was a GI duffle bag return following WWII and sold after vets death. Also, have a mint Browning A5 that had once been a Federal Cartridge test gun and never used, it was presented to a company employee on retirement and again never used, have documentation on this one. Another piece is a NIB Savage 745 in original box with tags that had been presented to an employee as an incentative award. These things are out there and of course manufacturer historians, for a fee, will furnish information as to original features and buyers. Many of the history stories could be just that, stories and without documentation, however interesting, not proven.
Another way to get and preserve the history is to seek out your families, friends and relatives guns and document as much as you can. I know one man from a large pioneer family that has a fantastic collection of such guns, he is older and has been doing this for many years.
I am older now and most of my shooting is about Ferdnand the Bull and one day any information I have will be passed on to next caretaker, Good luck in your collecting, Jerry
Western
Posts: 62
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:27 am

Re: a question

Post by Western »

I lucked out - bought a Model 8 with a 3xxx serial number, then found its original owning family (actually, they found me). Not much history in terms of famous people doing famous things, but a family history that ended up with the rifle in a pawn shop in Seattle where it sat for years unloved and un-purchased, until I came by with 50 bucks (the pawn owner was glad be be quit of it since most of his gun purchases are AKs).
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Wildgoose
Posts: 237
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 5:53 am
Location: Nebraska

Re: a question

Post by Wildgoose »

Over heard conversation at a big gun show in KC last year. The gun being looked at was a very nice Winchester 1886. I am sure the price was hefty. The dealer was commenting to the prospective buyer that indeed a rifle as nice and desireable should have some kind of history to go with it. He then said. "Tell ya what, for a bit extra I could make somethig up." :lol:
Gotta love gun shows and old gun dealers. :D
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imfuncity
Posts: 1208
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:44 am
Location: 2hrs N of Sac., Tehama Co. CA

Re: a question

Post by imfuncity »

Indeed. :o Probably even get Frank Hamer or Billy or Jesse or ... to come back be photographed with it! :lol:
Though defensive violence will always be “a sad necessity” in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men. - St. Augustine
mr mike
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 7:48 pm

Re: a question

Post by mr mike »

Okay you guys. Make up a story huh? I guess that might work 8-)

Actually though I was curious about those letters from Winchester. It does appear that if you write them
they have the records to use in reply with info on the rifle. They looked pretty legit to me.
Does remington do the same if you write them? Anybody know?

Also, consider this. If you do have written documented records on your rifle, not just some guys "sea story"
told over a tall beer,
not only is it a part of the guns history, even if it involves no one famous.
It adds to the value of your piece. Same is true for cars, airplanes, boats, etc.
As an example take the "tommy" gun auctioned off recently, supposedly owned by Bonny and Clyde. There was some paperwork with the gun to support that claim. Thus a gun that might normally run a thousand to 1,500 dollars or so was
worth a couple of truck loads of cash. ;)
I went back and located one of the guns I'd looked at earlier. Scroll down and check out the documentation
provided with this rifle, pretty interesting.
http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewIt ... =275425197
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