. Or how about a download .338 Federal aka .338-08.Ok, now that carbines have been made ...
Ok, now that carbines have been made ...
Who is going to rechamber one of these in a modern cartridge? I was just reading about the .338 Marlin Express. Same pressures as the .300 Savage, length is ok, much better ballistically than any stock offerings, bolt might need some work, ammo is available, and there is a .300 Savage barrel that could use a rebore on an auction site rigth now . Or how about a download .338 Federal aka .338-08.
. Or how about a download .338 Federal aka .338-08.Re: Ok, now that carbines have been made ...
Theoretically, the M8/81 barrel could be rebored, rerifled, and rechambered for about any cartridge that would fit into the magazine, so long as the bullet diameter was not too large (.35 is probably about the largest to leave enough metal around the hole). However, that is not a cheap job, but if you have the bucks in your jeans pocket, have at it. I think, for cartridge length considerations (2.6" OAL is about max), a wildcat .300 Savage case neck expanded to take .338 bullets would be mandated if you really want a .338 M81 with some punch that's not a single shot. You could also neck down a .35 Remington, but the case would not have the capacity of the .300 Savage. But that would be even more costly, what with custom chambering reamers, reloading dies, etc.. As I have previously expounded upon, I think 6.8mm Remington SPC would be an ideal round for a modernized M81.
Re: Ok, now that carbines have been made ...
Your idea is interesting.We have had several posts concerning rebore of a 300 Savage barrel.These were in a quest for better accuracy/higher performance.The concensus from myself and other members is that you can convert a rifle to about any chambering and bore as long as you are willing to spend the money.Your idea of the 338 Marlin Express wasn`t considered in those discussions.The rebore from 30 to 33 cal is possible with no wall thickness issues. I too am an admirer of the 338 Marlin Express and find it amazing that after 100+ years that the performance of the venerable 30-06 is still being chased and used as the standard to shoot for with a "New" cartridge. I have been an ought-six fan for a good while and it is good that it gets the recognition it deserves.
Admiration of the new Marlin round comes from shooting a friends Marlin 336 last year in that chambering.With a Redfield Revolution 3X9 and Hornady ammo had no problem keeping them in a good group at 200 yards .Would have felt confident taking a shot on a deer sized animal at 250+.That being said the issue of the rifle design as well as the round has to be considered.All of the 336`s I have shot whether 30-30,32Win,or 35 Rem have been very accurate to the limits of the chambering. Our beloved 8/81`s might have a problem staying within the accuracy range of the 336 due to the design and being a take-down.It would however give considerable more punch with it in 338ME. That extra power would be great if facing a dangerous animal but for the many, that would use it for deer sized game I don`t see much advantage.You can only make something so dead.In my experience the 300 Savage does that without fail.
My interest in having an 8 or 81 in a "modern" cartridge was awakened with the post awhile back by jbbear "Model 8 in 7.62x39". His using a surplus Yugo SkS barrel to accomplish the project was unique. When the bench gets cleared I plan to do one also.This conversion to me satisfies several criteria:Inexpensive to do,rifle can be returned to original configuration and I have a case of 7.62x39 gathering dust.
Thanks for the post. I see you are picking up an 81,today in 35 Remington with Stith mounted Texan.Good score on that one.
Joe
Admiration of the new Marlin round comes from shooting a friends Marlin 336 last year in that chambering.With a Redfield Revolution 3X9 and Hornady ammo had no problem keeping them in a good group at 200 yards .Would have felt confident taking a shot on a deer sized animal at 250+.That being said the issue of the rifle design as well as the round has to be considered.All of the 336`s I have shot whether 30-30,32Win,or 35 Rem have been very accurate to the limits of the chambering. Our beloved 8/81`s might have a problem staying within the accuracy range of the 336 due to the design and being a take-down.It would however give considerable more punch with it in 338ME. That extra power would be great if facing a dangerous animal but for the many, that would use it for deer sized game I don`t see much advantage.You can only make something so dead.In my experience the 300 Savage does that without fail.
My interest in having an 8 or 81 in a "modern" cartridge was awakened with the post awhile back by jbbear "Model 8 in 7.62x39". His using a surplus Yugo SkS barrel to accomplish the project was unique. When the bench gets cleared I plan to do one also.This conversion to me satisfies several criteria:Inexpensive to do,rifle can be returned to original configuration and I have a case of 7.62x39 gathering dust.
Thanks for the post. I see you are picking up an 81,today in 35 Remington with Stith mounted Texan.Good score on that one.
Joe
".......ain't many troubles that a man cain't fix
With seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."
With seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."
Re: Ok, now that carbines have been made ...
I strongly agree that a .300 Savage will do about anything that can be done in a M81, and mental exercises about any other cartridges to which it could be adapted are pretty much daydreaming in terms of achieving significant ballistic improvement. If someone wanted to resurrect manufacture of the M81 (unlikely at best), then these other calibers would be more worthy of consideration, but for reasons other than performance, more related to ammunition availability and ammunition cost.
The .300 Savage was created right after WWI so that the Savage Model 99 lever action rifle (which had a short action) could be offered in a round having ballistics comparable to the longer .30-'06, which was very familiar to the returning Doughboys. It succeeded in that regard. In the 1950s it was displaced for sporting purposes by the .308 Winchester, mostly because of the .308's adoption by the military as the 7.62 X 51mm NATO. .308 and .300 Savage cases are nearly identical, except that the .308 case has a longer neck. Absent the .308's appearance on the scene, the .300 Savage would undoubtedly have continued to be a very popular sporting cartridge to this day, as it has essentially identical performance characteristics to the .308 and the .30-'06 for any normal hunting purposes. The main difference between the .300 Savage and the .30-'06 is that most .30-'06 barrels have a 1:10" rifling twist which will stabilize 200 and 220 grain bullets, while most rifles in .300 Savage (and also the .308) have a slower 1:12" twist which shouldn't be used with bullets much heavier than 180 grains. But few hunters require bullets heavier than 180 grains, and those few would likely choose one of the various magnums anyway.
Remington made no mistake in chambering the M81 in .300 Savage, as it maximized the performance of the M81, then and now. It would be very difficult, if not impossible, to improve on it within the M81's design limitations.
I once had a conversation with the chief ballistician at the Federal Cartridge Co. To greatly distill his words of ballistics wisdom, he said: "If you have a .30-'06, you don't need anything else." I think much the same can be said about the .300 Savage.
The .300 Savage was created right after WWI so that the Savage Model 99 lever action rifle (which had a short action) could be offered in a round having ballistics comparable to the longer .30-'06, which was very familiar to the returning Doughboys. It succeeded in that regard. In the 1950s it was displaced for sporting purposes by the .308 Winchester, mostly because of the .308's adoption by the military as the 7.62 X 51mm NATO. .308 and .300 Savage cases are nearly identical, except that the .308 case has a longer neck. Absent the .308's appearance on the scene, the .300 Savage would undoubtedly have continued to be a very popular sporting cartridge to this day, as it has essentially identical performance characteristics to the .308 and the .30-'06 for any normal hunting purposes. The main difference between the .300 Savage and the .30-'06 is that most .30-'06 barrels have a 1:10" rifling twist which will stabilize 200 and 220 grain bullets, while most rifles in .300 Savage (and also the .308) have a slower 1:12" twist which shouldn't be used with bullets much heavier than 180 grains. But few hunters require bullets heavier than 180 grains, and those few would likely choose one of the various magnums anyway.
Remington made no mistake in chambering the M81 in .300 Savage, as it maximized the performance of the M81, then and now. It would be very difficult, if not impossible, to improve on it within the M81's design limitations.
I once had a conversation with the chief ballistician at the Federal Cartridge Co. To greatly distill his words of ballistics wisdom, he said: "If you have a .30-'06, you don't need anything else." I think much the same can be said about the .300 Savage.
Re: Ok, now that carbines have been made ...
In 1934 a Model 8 factory prototype was made up in .250-3000 Savage. We've got a copy of the original memo I need to post it.
Cam Woodall
Site Co-Administrator
Site Co-Administrator
Re: Ok, now that carbines have been made ...
Cam, That would be worth a look. Two 99`s in 250-3000 are in the safe.Piles of brass and bullets.Duh???? Why didn`t I think of that? Arthur Savage was way ahead of his time with that one.Love it when someone raves about the 22-250 and I get to tell them that the parent cartridge is just about 100 years old. Would be an interesting conversion but, (and am sure Dewalt will agree) don`t know if the 8/81 platform would be the best for the accuracy potential of the 250. One of my 99`s is a minute of angle shooter at 100 yards and would not hesitate taking a shot at 3 times that.It is my favorite Coyote dispatcher.
Joe
Joe
".......ain't many troubles that a man cain't fix
With seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."
With seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."
Re: Ok, now that carbines have been made ...
I was just tossing out an idea since these guns are pretty old and tough to rebarrel. Could be an option for someone to keep one shooting. What if you had a shot out barrel and you wanted to keep shooting? The like DWalt's idea of a 6.8 SPC but the case is to short, but how about a 6.5 or .27 Rem? Or that .338 Savage? Did I mention I like to make things difficult on myself? You should see the 6.5 Carcano scout rifle I am working on out of 2 freebie rifles(1 good barrel + 1 good action), nothing like chopping up cheap '60's sporters into something new and handy 
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Re: Ok, now that carbines have been made ...
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