Anybody else have strange firearms?

Talk about things other than the Model 8's and 81's
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texassako
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:27 pm

Anybody else have strange firearms?

Post by texassako »

I know, some consider the 8 and 81 recoil system strange. I like the odd and unusual, and wondered if anybody else liked unusual firearms as well.

Current reload work up candidate and companion to the 8 on range trips, left hand stock Finnish M28/76 Mosin Nagant (1900 Sestroryetsk receiver):
M2876 right side (600 x 450).jpg
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The current "What the heck is that?!" at the range when I take my wheelguns, an antique Belgian RIC copy with a grip safety that block double action unless gripped, blocks single action cocking unless finger is on trigger, and keeps the hammer from striking the primer if the hammer falls when cocked but not gripped at the bottom if dropped or to decock. I would love to see the insides, but they assembled it through a tiny little hole that scares me:
belgian webley ric 2.jpg
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belgian webley ric (6) (600 x 450).jpg
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Sarge756
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Location: N.Florida on the coast

Re: Anybody else have strange firearms?

Post by Sarge756 »

Those are unique and am sure you enjoy the question and answer session when you take them to the range.Appreciate you sharing the photos.The different aspects of our hobby is what keeps us going I guess. At least in my case it keeps the used gun market humming along quite nicely.Varied interests to me are better than sticking with a single model or action type.I love our model 8/81`s but stray off the reservation a good bit.Conversations with Mitch and others here confirm I am not alone. Renewed interest in the single shot Stevens rifles has added a couple of them to the stable in the last few weeks. The closest I can come to the strange and unusual is my Ross 1910 sporter with straight pull bolt that I posted photos of during a discussion on scope mounts.Also have a Steyr M95 straight pull of similar design as the Ross.Again, I appreciate your post and look forward to researching those models and learning more about them.
Below is the Stevens 44 1/2 in 22 K Hornet (In Transit). This will be the newest addition.
Joe
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texassako
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:27 pm

Re: Anybody else have strange firearms?

Post by texassako »

Cruising the firearms selling websites for strange and unusual stuff paid off today. Found an original stripper for the Model 8 listed as an unknown WWI clip :D . The .25-.30-.32 CAL stamp on it was a dead giveaway.
mr mike
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Re: Anybody else have strange firearms?

Post by mr mike »

Boy I'm glad someone else opened this thread. I wanted to raise this topic but was afraid I'd get "slapped" for
being speaking blasphlemy on our model 8's.

Currently while my only gun, a 1908 model 8 is in the shop, I'm "gun less". So last monday being a holiday ( Columbus day)
I went to visit my old ex-marine buddy who had passed his model 8 on to me a few months back. We made a pot of coffee and started tellin' "war" storys when another of his friends stopped by to show off his latest purchase. A rifle I'd never seen before. It was a Marlin 336C chambered in 35 remington. The same round my model 8 fires. I imagine most of you
guys that have shot / hunted awhile are familiar with this gun but for me, a "newby" it was my first time.

Gotta tell ya, the Marlin 336C is one sweet lookin' gun. It looks good, and feels good. It's weight is slightly less then the model 8 plus its about three inchs shorter than the Remington, with a 20 inch barrel. Brass is ejected out the right side and
it holds six rounds in the tube magazine. Did I mention its the same 200 grain bullet my remington fires? But only holds
four in the magazine.

Didn't get to fire it that day but I'm told the the recoil on this gun is nothing compared to the notorious Remington.
What I really like was hearing what he paid for his rifle.
I can get a Marlin 336C new, off the shelf, for a lot less less than a comparable Winchester or Henry rifle!

Boy, now I'm thinking. That sure was one sweet rifle. Next time the old lady is out with her girl friends, think I'm gonna
ease over to the local gun shop and snoop around........never know what I might run across, huh? ;)
sighthound
Posts: 233
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 11:39 am

Re: Anybody else have strange firearms?

Post by sighthound »

That 336 Marlin is indeed a sweet rifle, used one of the octagon barrel cowboy version in 38-55 for lever action silhouette rifle caliber game, with a trigger job and tang sight it is hard to beat. Many Marlin collectors prefer the square bolt models (1881 thru 1939) but hard to find one still able to compete as a shooter with the newer 336 models. Jerry
sighthound
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Re: Anybody else have strange firearms?

Post by sighthound »

OOPS, CRS struck again, square bolt models are 1889 thru 1939, 1881 1nd 1888 are top eject, sorry 'bout that, Jerry
texassako
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Re: Anybody else have strange firearms?

Post by texassako »

Picked this one up pretty cheap and should make a fun plinker:
onena right side away.jpg
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Bolt action police carbine from Spain in 9mm Largo, precursor to their Destroyer rifle. Cheap surplus ammo + cheap to reload with starline brass, cast bullets, and small powder load = all kinds of fun. It is the traveling companion for my 8 in .32 tomorrow to test some reloads in both.
DWalt
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Re: Anybody else have strange firearms?

Post by DWalt »

One of the strangest rifles contemporary with (and a competitor to) the Model 8 was the Standard Rifle (Standard Arms Co,), 1909-14. It was chambered in the same calibers as the Model 8, and could operate as either a semi-automatic or as a pump gun. No idea why someone thought that this capability was needed. I saw one for sale once, guess I should have bought it.
sighthound
Posts: 233
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Re: Anybody else have strange firearms?

Post by sighthound »

A thought here about the Standard Arms rifles, have never had any experience with one but have been told they are very unrelible in the auto mode and the manual mode was often needed to make it function. Jerry
texassako
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Re: Anybody else have strange firearms?

Post by texassako »

DWalt wrote:One of the strangest rifles contemporary with (and a competitor to) the Model 8 was the Standard Rifle (Standard Arms Co,), 1909-14. It was chambered in the same calibers as the Model 8, and could operate as either a semi-automatic or as a pump gun. No idea why someone thought that this capability was needed. I saw one for sale once, guess I should have bought it.
I almost bought one of those a while back until I looked them up online. They rarely cycle the next round properly in semiauto and working the pump action against a recoil spring is really tough. I don't really need any more wall hangers right now. On another note, that little rifle above has provided me a strange issue. Shot perfectly with surplus ammo, 20 rounds in a 4" circle at 50 yards with open sights, but barely struck the primers on starline brass and failed to fire every time. Time to break out the measuring tools and cerrosafe!
DWalt
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Re: Anybody else have strange firearms?

Post by DWalt »

Regarding the Standard - It seems very strange to me that the rifle would have been designed for failure. If they KNEW that it was unreliable in semiauto mode (and how could they not have known?), and it couldn't have been made, through a design change, to function properly as a semiauto, why wouldn't they have marketed it as a pump gun only? Nontheless, if I found one at a reasonable price, I'd snap it up, as it's a true rarity to see one these days, and functioning would not be an issue for me, as I wouldn't shoot it more than a few rounds anyway.

Regarding the Largo, I can't think of why the primer wouldn't be struck when using Starline cases. I assume you are using Starline 9mm Largo brass. Did you measure the Starline case length vs. the military brass case length? Only thing I can think of is that the Starline cases might be a tad shorter, and that as the case headspaces on the case mouth, it goes a little too far forward in the chamber for the firing pin to strike the primer properly. You might try some other cases - .38 Super, 9X23 Winchester, 9X23 Super Comp, and 9mm Steyr should also chamber. I'd start with .38 Super. Also, are you using small rifle or small pistol primers? If the former, the primer cup is a little heavier, and so a little less sensitive, than the small pistol.
texassako
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Re: Anybody else have strange firearms?

Post by texassako »

The starline brass is .010" shorter than the surplus, both are shorter than the .910" listed a case length, and the rim is .010" thinner as well letting it wiggle on the extractor some. The cast bullet I am using also get smaller faster than the surplus FMJ bullet. I think the reload is "falling" into an oversized or to deep chamber and the extractor or different bullet shape reaching the lands is "headspacing" the surplus, but I can't find my cerrosafe to be sure. The .38 super's rim will not fit in the magazine or eject, I tried. I was thinking of ordering some 9mm Winchester Magnum brass with some replacement cerrosafe to give me the length to trim back to a proper headspace. I used CCI small pistol primers, and grabbed a box of Winchester and Remington small pistol primers while out to test next time.
DWalt
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Re: Anybody else have strange firearms?

Post by DWalt »

I think I'd try 9X23mm cases before the 9mm Win Magnum, which is sort of costly and would require a lot of trimming. Might not be a bad idea to contact Starline, explain your problem, and ask them what their actual as-manufactured case length specs for all of their 9mm cases are. And of course you could try to seat bullets out a bit further to see if that helps. I can't see that rim thickness would make any difference, as the critical dimension is the rear surface-to-case mouth case length.

The 9X23mm cases are essentially rimless .38 Supers, but with a bit of a case taper. I shoot both .38 Super and 9X23 ammunition in my M1911 which has a specially-chambered 9X23 barrel (actually a 9X19 barrel re-chambered to 9X23mm). It also handles 9mm Largo and 9mm Steyr OK (but not often), and in a pinch, even 9X19mm. I also have a .38 Super-chambered EAA Witness, and it handles the full-powered 9X23mm Winchester loads fine, and occasionally 9X19mm also. Yeah, I know I'm not supposed to do that, but I've fired a lot of 9X19 that way with absolutely no problems.

By the way, my 9X23 cases (Winchester) mike at 0.898" and my 9X23 SuperComps (Starline) and W-W .38 Supers mike 0.894" So all are appreciably shorter than 0.910". Factory DWM 9mm Steyr cases were much closer at 0.908" Looks like those would be better. Graf & Sons stocks Hornady 9mm Steyr cases at $30/100.
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45guy
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Re: Anybody else have strange firearms?

Post by 45guy »

I suppose I still own a strange one until the auction closes... :P :P http://www.gunauction.com/search/displa ... m=10695934
"The sound of shot sweeping through the air toward you is impressive though. I'll give you that. It's like being swatted with the broom of God."
texassako
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Re: Anybody else have strange firearms?

Post by texassako »

Nice Nagant and it would go nicely with my Russian M1895 Nagant, but I am trying to resist the many temptations that cross my path unless it is a .25 Rem Model 8 with a good barrel or a clean newer version of the Destroyer rifle listed above. An interestingly stocked Carcano sporter happened to follow me home the other day, but the scopes and ammo with enbloc clips that came with it made the rifle almost free. I doubt the Mossberg scope on it will hold zero; so the other one it came with will probably go back on and the oddly placed aperture sight at the front right side of the receiver will go as well. Kind of tough for a lefty to look through the scope with the crazy high comb but almost perfect for a righty with that side mount, even if it is strange looking.
sporter (12) (600 x 450).jpg
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45guy
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Re: Anybody else have strange firearms?

Post by 45guy »

So, you're looking for a destroyer eh? Is it the 1921 variation with the root of the bolt handle acting as the locking lug or the later version with dual opposed rear lugs? If the latter, I have a line on one.
"The sound of shot sweeping through the air toward you is impressive though. I'll give you that. It's like being swatted with the broom of God."
texassako
Posts: 139
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Re: Anybody else have strange firearms?

Post by texassako »

I have the 1921 version. It is the one with the reloading issues in the previous posts(sligthly too deep chamber + to short starline brass = no boom). The later mini-mauser type action would be nice as long as the little extractor is in one piece and not chewed up. Lots of extractorless ones floating around out there.
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45guy
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Re: Anybody else have strange firearms?

Post by 45guy »

There is one on the rack at the local grocery store/ gun shop. I can see if I can work a deal if you need it.
"The sound of shot sweeping through the air toward you is impressive though. I'll give you that. It's like being swatted with the broom of God."
texassako
Posts: 139
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Re: Anybody else have strange firearms?

Post by texassako »

Thanks for the offer 45guy, but I found one of the rarer ones with the flush to the stock mag and sort of a cross between the old one and the common newer one (using up old parts maybe?). The ones actually marked Destroyer are pretty common; so it can wait until I clear out some of the random stuff that has come along with the keepers.
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