Back from the dead, I am!

Talk about things other than the Model 8's and 81's
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Adam Lee
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Back from the dead, I am!

Post by Adam Lee » Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:02 am

:mrgreen:

Sorry guys and gals for the goofy title, but I couldn't figure out what to put in there. I'm not a lurker, I'm not a random gun guy, but I have certainly been off the res for a few years!
Maybe it's guilt, that I can't keep up with the interwebs fast enough, so I just give up and don't bother. I find myself way too easily distracted on the internet with all the bright shiny attractions.... :roll:

Big news: I actually have a valid reason to some extent, in that for more than 4 months I've been recovering from a second major surgery and on disability leave from my job. Now both shoulders have been repaired within 6 months! Fortunately (or not) I am returning to my 3rd grade classroom April 22nd. Hope they remember who I am!
But that news is only half the story. My wife also had a completely unrelated and very serious surgery of her own, which put her out of work for about 4 months, during the same time frame! Yeah, and I just turned 55 so we both are the same age now.

This is alot of info, I know - but I wanted to get this typed up before I gave up on the internet again.....I actually have a very good line of Model 8/81 Krieger-related questions for y'all to ask about, which I will do later in the appropriate area. Right now, my dogs are begging for their overdue walk - and they don't give up bugging me about it!

Hope all are well in this slice of vintage Americana these days.

Adam
04132018vldmusculoskeletalrotatorcuff.jpg
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I am a regular joe, consisting of 78% coffee, 12% hot air, 9% organizational abilities, and 1% luck.

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Hardrada55
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Re: Back from the dead, I am!

Post by Hardrada55 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:40 am

Glad you're back from across the river! I'm sure your charges will be excited to get you back. This corner the American experiment seems to be doing better than most. W
...the right of citizens to bear arms is just one more guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against the tyranny which now appears remote in America..."
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81police
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Re: Back from the dead, I am!

Post by 81police » Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:42 am

Dude!!! You're back!!! We missed ya.

Hope those shoulders heal up soon, they may need a little "Model 8 recoil therapy" before the years out
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canuck
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Re: Back from the dead, I am!

Post by canuck » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:04 am

What were your shoulder issues Adam?
Got me supraspinatus tears in both shoulders myself - 70% in left, 50% right.
Decided to live with it rather than surgery but not sure it was the right choice.

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Sarge756
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Re: Back from the dead, I am!

Post by Sarge756 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:06 pm

Good to hear from you. In the middle of a restoration of a 16 Ga. 'Ranger' (Stevens 520) and know you like them. Will post photos when completed. You are learning that getting old is not for wimps. :D :D :D

Joe
".......ain't many troubles that a man cain't fix
With seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."

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jack1653
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Re: Back from the dead, I am!

Post by jack1653 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:32 pm

Glad to see you back on line. That shoulder surgery is no fun. The rehab is what takes forever. When I had my repair, the old pain was gone but the physical therapy brought on new pains. It took me almost all year to get back to normal. I will be looking forward to seeing your posts again.

Regards,

jack1653

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Phyrbird
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Re: Back from the dead, I am!

Post by Phyrbird » Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:24 pm

Welcome Back, Welcome Back, U knowfrom Kotter. :lol:
I know about the therapy dragging on, from the back surgery couple years ago...
Stay with the stretching & strength building!! It does help, maybe just not soon enough t suit us...
Carl
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ranman
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Re: Back from the dead, I am!

Post by ranman » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:27 am

Welcome back :D I bet all students miss you.

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Adam Lee
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Re: Back from the dead, I am!

Post by Adam Lee » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:58 am

Big #1 THANK YOU to all!

Ironically, I am now just heading out to take my wife to the hospital for another procedure. It's just routine, but another chapter of her spinal tumor saga....will check in with y'all later. Busy guy these days!

Take care
Adam
I am a regular joe, consisting of 78% coffee, 12% hot air, 9% organizational abilities, and 1% luck.

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Roger
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Re: Back from the dead, I am!

Post by Roger » Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:08 am

Welcome back,old buddy!
Roger
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Adam Lee
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Re: Back from the dead, I am!

Post by Adam Lee » Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:20 am

Roger wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:08 am
Welcome back,old buddy!
Roger
Thank you very much for the welcome, Roger! I do appreciate hearing back from an Iowan - my Mom's side of the family all came from Charles City originally, FWIW.

Adam
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Re: Back from the dead, I am!

Post by Adam Lee » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:02 am

canuck wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:04 am
What were your shoulder issues Adam?
Got me supraspinatus tears in both shoulders myself - 70% in left, 50% right.
Decided to live with it rather than surgery but not sure it was the right choice.
Well, Canuck, you asked - here is the damage data! MRI immediately following my accidental fall with the 4 items that were torn and reattached in bold print. Copied from my saved files. I am not concerned about piracy of any of this! :lol: :ugeek: :shock:
First off, my left shoulder injury last May. Ended up having the surgery for THIS shoulder late June. Little did I know I was due for the same event for my dominant side shoulder in December!!! :evil: :twisted: :shock:

FINDINGS:
Rotator cuff: Full-thickness, full width tear of the supraspinatus
tendon
is present with differential retraction to the acromioclavicular
joint and glenoid rim. There is a full-thickness, full width or near
full width tear of the infraspinatus tendon
with differential retraction
to the acromioclavicular joint and glenoid rim. Teres minor tendon is
intact. There is a low-grade partial insertional tear of the
subscapularis tendon
with mild medial subluxation of the long head of
biceps tendon
. There is mildly reduced muscle bulk without
evidence of fatty infiltration.
Labrum: The labrum has a diffusely small appearance with blunted
morphology in keeping with degeneration. A degenerative superior labral
tear cannot be excluded.
Biceps Tendon: The intra-articular segment is somewhat attenuated and a
partial tear
cannot be excluded. The extra articular segment is intact.
Bone/cartilage: No acute fracture is present. There is mild cartilage
thinning along the superior aspect of the humeral head.
Ligaments/capsule: Inferior glenohumeral ligament and axillary pouch
intact.
AC joint: Moderate acromioclavicular arthropathy. There is a prominent
inferior osteophyte and a lateral downward sloping acromion with
subacromial spur which narrows the supraspinatus outlet.
Misc: Moderate glenohumeral effusion communicating with moderate volume
subacromial/subdeltoid and subcoracoid bursal fluid accumulation.

Nice, huh? And this came about during a once-in-a-lifetime event, running canine agility trials with my awesome buddy Wolfgang. I was pre-running an advanced course with him, my first practice of the evening, and it was MY mistake that caused me to take a big bad smack into concrete floor when I stumbled running BACKWARDS avoiding a barrier!
OK, the second (yes, 2nd!) traumatic shoulder injury was even DUMBER.
October 31. Halloween. Just got full recovery on that injury, right? 3-1/2 months after my surgery, what happens? Almost too embarrassed to say. I moved too quickly and tripped down 3 steps, tried catching myself with one outstretched arm (here it comes, dominant right arm - get ready for it) and snapped it back the wrong direction falling down. Can you say, ouch?

Yes, thank goodness I had already experienced traumatic shoulder injury in my recent past so I knew what that snapping sensation combined with extreme pain was exactly all about. There was an immediate urge to make an inappropriate outburst, which I promptly made as required.

MRI data for this arm: Less stuff messed up, however - ironically - much more difficult recovery. My doctor explained that no two rotator cuff post-op experiences are the same, regardless of tearing involved.

CONCLUSION:
1. There is a 1 cm wide U-shaped tear of the middle fibers of the
supraspinatus tendon at the tendon insertion.

2. There is mild to moderate atrophy supraspinatus muscle.
3. There is subacromial spurring. There is moderate increased fluid within
the subacromial - subdeltoid bursa. There is mild to moderate
acromioclavicular arthropathy and hypertrophy.

Only after opening things up, so to speak (mostly laproscopic surgery except for the biceps tenodesis, which provided a nice 2" scar) would my super doctor find out the true extent of damage. In my case, I had 3 full-width/complete tears in my first injury, the supraspinatus; infraspinatus, subscapularis tendons with my biceps long head tendon nearly through, so he cut that clean and reattached it which is what you call "biceps tenodesis" and is truly a joy! 4 reattached parts in that shoulder.

My right arm "only" had the supraspinatus half-torn across, regardless of what the MRI interpreter said, so it was repaired as if it were a full tear. At the same time, there was some sort of cleanout procedure done in there. Want pictures? of the MRI screen shots? I have those. Well, no I won't share them because they look like prenatal sonograms!!!

Hope everyone's shoulders are feeling as well as possible, and don't fall if you can avoid it! Hope you guys had fun reading this tome, I was sort of chuckling as I wrote it all out. Maybe it made me feel better about things - I'm still not 100% and as some of you guys clearly know, it takes a good year for these to settle down, even with routine PT.

Oh, did I mention that I had a pre-existing rod in my humerus in my right arm to make things more interesting for everyone? Since I had a nearly foot-long titanium rod in there from ANOTHER accidental fall 20 years ago (much more dramatic injury) my MRI procedure had to be slow as molasses, on reduced power, because of all that metal. I was in total agony trying to stay still in that freaking MRI tube for an hour man! Was worse than the accident itself!!!!

Take care of yourselves, y'all!!!!

Adam
I am a regular joe, consisting of 78% coffee, 12% hot air, 9% organizational abilities, and 1% luck.

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Adam Lee
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Re: Back from the dead, I am!

Post by Adam Lee » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:15 am

81police wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:42 am
Dude!!! You're back!!! We missed ya.

Hope those shoulders heal up soon, they may need a little "Model 8 recoil therapy" before the years out
Cam, you read my mind! I've been aching ( :lol: ) to hit the range with one of my .300 Savage Model 81's dude! That will truly make for a memorable, painful experience.
Funny thing is, using my old Israeli/Korean tactical vest with heavy rubber shoulder rifle rests on both sides, recoil isn't even very noticeable.
However I'm going to be shooting my .357/.38 Rossi 92 carbine first thing as I can, I've been getting into reloading for that and my Taurus 85 snubbie & Ruger Security Six (.357) but that's another post.
I am a regular joe, consisting of 78% coffee, 12% hot air, 9% organizational abilities, and 1% luck.

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Adam Lee
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Re: Back from the dead, I am!

Post by Adam Lee » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:19 am

Sarge756 wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:06 pm
Good to hear from you. In the middle of a restoration of a 16 Ga. 'Ranger' (Stevens 520) and know you like them. Will post photos when completed. You are learning that getting old is not for wimps. :D :D :D

Joe
Thanks for checking in, Joe! Not only is getting old serious work, but I didn't even do anything old folks do in order to damage myself! No classic slips on the ice, tripping on the sidewalk curb, falling in the bathtub....jeez I really am a wimp! :mrgreen: :lol:

By all means, post pics of your 520 if you are ever able. I admit to having traded mine off for other guns which I have a tendency to do..... :roll:
I am a regular joe, consisting of 78% coffee, 12% hot air, 9% organizational abilities, and 1% luck.

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Adam Lee
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Re: Back from the dead, I am!

Post by Adam Lee » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:29 am

jack1653 wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:32 pm
Glad to see you back on line. That shoulder surgery is no fun. The rehab is what takes forever. When I had my repair, the old pain was gone but the physical therapy brought on new pains. It took me almost all year to get back to normal. I will be looking forward to seeing your posts again.

Regards,

jack1653
Thanks Jack - you are spot-on with PT pain, my man! Who knew that would play out like that? I thought they were supposed to make you feel BETTER?

Jack - hey, you with the many Kriegers! You may be able to help me out with something I've been planning during my long recovery (as I was going loco from boredom). I want to make my own Krieger-style modified mags for my rifle, which came to me missing its mag. Now that I have a few spare standard 81/8 mags, I'd like to get some good clear photos of magazine housings in order to approximate the rivet slots and cuts to make, as well as the area to be ground down on the front face of the mag body. I have the tools and technology, but no examples to compare with. Would you be willing to snap pics of a Krieger mag or two to share with the community? I'd be interested in close-up pics of full images only, from all sides/top and bottom. What I mean is shots that include the entire mag in the photo from each of the 6 sides. Even better would be if photos could be made on grid paper or with a ruler line adjacent. I hope this makes sense - and if it's a bother, no problem! I was going to make a general post about this on the forum, but now that I've got your attention here.... :mrgreen: :ugeek:
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Adam Lee
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Re: Back from the dead, I am!

Post by Adam Lee » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:31 am

Phyrbird wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:24 pm
Welcome Back, Welcome Back, U knowfrom Kotter. :lol:
I know about the therapy dragging on, from the back surgery couple years ago...
Stay with the stretching & strength building!! It does help, maybe just not soon enough t suit us...
Carl
Hey Carl! Thanks for the Welcome Back Kotter flashback....definitely on my mind! Hope your back is doing well as it can. My wife just had major back surgery in November, a spinal tumor was removed, she's doing well and back at her school teaching music once again!

Adam
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jack1653
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Re: Back from the dead, I am!

Post by jack1653 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:55 pm

Hey Adam,

I will be happy to send some pictures of the Krieger magazine. Give me a few days to get things together. I will try and get them before I leave for Cape Cod next week. If I don’t, I will get them when I return in May.

Regards,

Jack

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Phyrbird
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Re: Back from the dead, I am!

Post by Phyrbird » Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:08 pm

Adam,
Glad to hear the post-op therapy is helping your both, Keep on keeping on.
I too am interested in the Kreiger mods.
As I have the "Not" Kreiger & 3 early mags that don't use the side springs I'd like to mod a couple to make Xtra magazines for mine. It is different from the classic Kreiger design so they won't help with the classics. One of the mags in the bin has the front completely ground smooth with the round front. I hope I can restore it to useful purpose by fitting it for my rifle. Otherwise it's scrap till I can figure out the drill for making deep mags from 2 for a 8-10 rd fixed mag. Perhaps I'll get-er-done. :D
Jack, eat some lobster for me, I loved the fresh seafood at Calabash in NC decades ago, wish I could go back sometime....
Phyrbird
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Re: Back from the dead, I am!

Post by Rifleman » Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:40 pm

Hello Adam, Welcome back. In regards to Rotator Cuff Surgery, well, been there, done that. Right shoulder rotator, complete tear back in 1996, surgery Feb, 97-out of work three months, went back to work one month earlier than MD's figured. Mostly due to better than normal body condition for a 48 year old and I went into the rehab with a vengeance as I didn't want any physical after effects. Been 22 years since but as after the surgery which did take approx. a year to fully heal, I can't throw a baseball overhand, do any overhead work such as painting a ceiling, lift heavy objects worth a hoot over my head, or even hold my arm overhead very long without pain. MD advised I had a complete healing, but due to severity of tear and 'age', would always have some limitations.

As advised can't toss a mean fastball anymore, can just lob it like a girl. OH well, hasn't affected my favorite pastimes of shooting, guitar playing, fishing, and being with kids and grandkids. Reference shooting, I've found that by using a slip-on stock pad, esp. those made by Limbsaver really help with felt recoil. Shooting both of my 81 300 Savage's and other military 'big caliber' surplus rifles helped big time. Used a medium size for my 81's (and fits my military surplus rifles also). The recoil didn't bother that much, but thought I'd give the Limbsaver a try, I'm spoiled now. FWIW, I grew up and still reside near Charles City, Iowa, although attended another school. It's a 10 mile drive from my 10-20, make a trip to "Chuck Town" quite often. Good luck on your recovery (and your wife's), don't over due anything. My orthopedic surgeon advised me a lot of his RC surgeries are repeats of those going out and trying to do to much, too early. I'll PM ya, courious of your wife's relation, may know them, may know me. I was in law enforcement for 21 years, although most of the years was in another area of the state.

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Adam Lee
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Re: Back from the dead, I am!

Post by Adam Lee » Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:56 am

Rifleman wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:40 pm
Hello Adam, Welcome back. In regards to Rotator Cuff Surgery, well, been there, done that. Right shoulder rotator, complete tear back in 1996....

yah, buddy! you know it!
Question: was your tear due to traumatic injury, or gradual wear & tear? Both my shoulder repairs were result of traumatic (sudden impact) injuries. And back in '97, what was your surgical procedure at that time? 22 years ago, probably no laparoscopy and you have a scar or two to show for your troubles. I ended up with the 4 little tiny laparoscopic holes, PLUS the 2" slice for the bicep tendon fix. They pull your unattached long tendon completely out of your arm, clean it up, and reinsert/reattach to the bone. Neat image, eh?


Reference shooting, I've found that by using a slip-on stock pad, esp. those made by Limbsaver really help with felt recoil.

That's a great tip. I have not fired a gun in almost a year, due to my dual-surgical recoveries. I have a PAST shoulder pad from Caldwell which I find works good. Hope it still does, if I need more, I will try a slip-on Limbsaver.


FWIW, I grew up and still reside near Charles City, Iowa, although attended another school. I'll PM ya, curious of your wife's relation, may know them, may know me. I was in law enforcement for 21 years, although most of the years was in another area of the state.

My connection with Charles City Iowa is that is my mom's hometown. As she was the youngest of 4 kids, at 76 years of age she is about to become the sole survivor. Her sister Gerry (Geraldine) is 85 and lives with dementia. Now their family lines, FYI, would be Scheidecker and Bjorkman.

There is one very cool old Charles City newspaper clipping that I can't find right now, related to my uncle Jim who was a hotshot B-47 jet bomber pilot, from about 1957. Apparently on one of his SAC bomber training runs he "deviated" off course a bit and did a treetop level buzz over Charles City. I can't believe he didn't get in trouble for that!
At that time, in 1957 he was Lt. James Bjorkman and at his passing in 1983 he was just about to be promoted to Brigadier General when he commanded at McChord AFB near Tacoma.

Thanks for checking in, hope to hear more from you!
I am a regular joe, consisting of 78% coffee, 12% hot air, 9% organizational abilities, and 1% luck.

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Re: Back from the dead, I am!

Post by Rifleman » Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:14 pm

Rotator tear due to traumatic injury. Slipping on a metal feed grain bin ladder and grabbing rung to prevent fall. Only aggravated it at time, but short time later, slipped on snow covered ice, grabbed the side rail of a truck with right arm and all my weight pulling on right shoulder. Felt like a rubber band snapping. I have a nice nasty looking scar from front to back. They had to drill holes in upper arm bone and sew tendon in place. Painful, before and after surgery was a lot of 'trial and tribulation' in learning to use my left arm and hand for day to day living being I'm a 'righty'! No shooting, guitar playing, and a lot of other problems associated with not be able to use right arm. Got the 'feeling sorry for myself' in check one day when I saw a one armed person with a artificial hand on the other arm doing some amazing things one day. Got real humble when I realized I'd be back in the saddle again someday when healing was over, but this guy it was 24/7 for the rest of his life.

Those Limbsaver recoil pads IMO are the best I've seen for slip-on's. Good quality and great recoil absorption not only from my 81 300 Savages, but military surplus handheld howitzers like the Mauser K98k, Russian Mosin-Nagan's, and other full power loads from the likes of a M1 Garand.

I'll PM ya ASP ref your Charles City connection. Interesting. I recall some years back some guys talking about some USAF plane flying low over Charles City and that the the pilot was a former resident.

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jack1653
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Re: Back from the dead, I am!

Post by jack1653 » Sat May 11, 2019 10:54 am

Hey Adam,

I have sent you a Private Message.

Jack

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Adam Lee
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Re: Back from the dead, I am!

Post by Adam Lee » Sun May 12, 2019 5:17 am

Thanks Jack - check your inbox.

Adam
I am a regular joe, consisting of 78% coffee, 12% hot air, 9% organizational abilities, and 1% luck.

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