need some help identifying a few 1907 model 8 parts

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uhjohnson
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need some help identifying a few 1907 model 8 parts

Post by uhjohnson » Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:22 am

the model 8 in question is a 1907 serial number 4187
1) barrel jacket head has "XA3" stamp on the side and 4187 on the bottom
2)barrel jacket address is two even lines on top that starts about 1 1/2 inches in front of the forearm and runs back to just in front of the rear sight. the Remington address is on top and Browning's patent numbers underneath, the last year is Feb 14 1911. there is also a barrel jacket plug screw for a swivel
3)rear sight has PATENTED JULY 3 1902 running down the length
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81police
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Re: need some help identifying a few 1907 model 8 parts

Post by 81police » Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:44 pm

Not sure what all you're asking exactly. I can tell you that the "XA3" indicates a factory repair performed in December 1932.
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imfuncity
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Re: need some help identifying a few 1907 model 8 parts

Post by imfuncity » Fri Oct 08, 2010 2:25 pm

Your serial number and the "PATENTED JULY 3 1902" indicates a 1907 date of manufacture (DOM). Don't let the barrel AX3 (repair stamp) confuse you, barrel stamp date codes were not introduced until 1921.

Enjoy and let us see the pics!
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uhjohnson
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Re: need some help identifying a few 1907 model 8 parts

Post by uhjohnson » Sat Oct 09, 2010 7:59 am

81police wrote:Not sure what all you're asking exactly. I can tell you that the "XA3" indicates a factory repair performed in December 1932.
i guess what i am asking is, if all the pieces belong to a 1907 model 8
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imfuncity
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Re: need some help identifying a few 1907 model 8 parts

Post by imfuncity » Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:49 am

So far so good with everything matching. Sometimes (but not always) the serial numbers are stamped on the furniture under the metal, but in removing them to look, there is a risk of breaking particularly the butt stock.

Do you have a reason to be suspicious or something you are looking for in particular? Pictures might help us.
Though defensive violence will always be “a sad necessity” in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men. - St. Augustine

uhjohnson
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Re: need some help identifying a few 1907 model 8 parts

Post by uhjohnson » Sat Oct 09, 2010 6:36 pm

imfuncity wrote:So far so good with everything matching. Sometimes (but not always) the serial numbers are stamped on the furniture under the metal, but in removing them to look, there is a risk of breaking particularly the butt stock.

Do you have a reason to be suspicious or something you are looking for in particular? Pictures might help us.
the barrel jacket has the last patent date of FEB 14 1911, why would it be on a rifle made in 1907

thanks
[b]Member of Berwyn Rod and Gun Club since 1983, it is an outdoor range located in Bowie Maryland, if interested in joining call 301-261-7515 or 301-464-9830[/b]

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imfuncity
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Re: ID a 1907 w 1911 date

Post by imfuncity » Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:24 pm

Oops, missed your mention of the 1911 date. I got hung up on the July 3, 1902 date (as indicated below). So why the 1911 date? Ahhhhh, I dunno? :? OK you old timers in this, help us out here.

In the meantime, here is what I found when I looked it up in the Henwood 8/81 bible: :ugeek:
"July 3, 1902" was only on the First Style of barrel inscriptions, through at least 1908; ALL subsequence Styles had the correct date June 3, 1902.

Then, this regarding the Second Style of inscriptions starting in 1910:
"MAY 14,1907; AND FEB. 14, 1911" were added (after the June 3, 1902 date) on ALL subsequence Styles.

:idea: Making an assumption (out of me): I'm suggesting that during the factory repair XA3 (December 1932), this jacket/shroud was replaced on this rifle by the factory with an in-stock “period correct” new jacket that just happen to have an unusual inscription rool mark combining the 1911 date with the old July date.

:o This would imply a "16th Inscription Style"? As I cannot find this combination anywhere in the Henwood listing of styles, pgs. 64-67. What say ye?

NOTE: Upjohnson, we will definitely need a close up picture of your rifle’s inscription roll mark and it would help to see the rest of the rifle to.:D I've gone out in the dark as far as I'm going. ;)
Though defensive violence will always be “a sad necessity” in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men. - St. Augustine

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81police
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Re: ID a 1907 w 1911 date

Post by 81police » Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:33 pm

imfuncity wrote:Making an assumption (out of me): I'm suggesting that during the factory repair XA3 (December 1932), this jacket/shroud was replaced on this rifle by the factory with an in-stock “period correct” new jacket that just happen to have an unusual inscription rool mark combining the 1911 date with the old July date.
The barrel jacket on the rifle now did not originally come with the rifle when it left the factory in 1907, thanks for pointing that out Mitch. Good eyes!

The other giveaway is that early Model 8 barrel jackets did not have the hole and plug screw for the sling swivel, this didn't come around till late 1920.
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Behemotosh
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Re: need some help identifying a few 1907 model 8 parts

Post by Behemotosh » Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:22 pm

Cam & Mitch,

So the story is the barrel jacket was replaced since it has the hole for the swivel stud and the later patent numbers..........The code alphanumeric indicates the factory did it in 1932.......Is there some way to tell if the barrel was replaced at this time as well? I am assuming it probably was, but...

Did Remington send out complete replacement barrel assemblies to gunsmiths without the code or do we know? I have seen several Model 8's with different serial number barrel assemblies and no factory code. I have always assumed the owner or gunsmith bought a used gun and swapped barrels. Just swapping barrels is kind of crazy if one doesn't know about the locking lug fit into the barrel nut, so I did not buy the gun.

I don't have Henwoods book-maybe the Great Pumpkin will send me one.

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81police
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Re: need some help identifying a few 1907 model 8 parts

Post by 81police » Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:04 am

The repair code tell us that whatever happened, that rifle was wearing that later barrel jacket when it left Remington in Dec. 1932. In some cases, like this one, you see later mfg parts on an earlier rifle which suggest those parts were replaced.

If you find a rifle w/ mismatched receiver and barrel jacket serial numbers, and no repair code, I'd be willing to say it wasn't done by Remington. Swapping out barrel assemblies is very easy. Let's say you have a 35Rem Model 81 w/out a barrel assembly, you can put a Model 8 .35Rem barrel assembly on there, load up, and go to town. Seeing mismatched receivers and barrel assemblies is not uncommon.

I don't know how Remington went about their repairs, that's a good area to research though!
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