British proof marks on Model 8?

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mrparty
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British proof marks on Model 8?

Post by mrparty »

Hello guys, I'm new to this forum.
I've got a Model 8 that has some interesting British proof marks and was wondering if anyone might know more about them or what the gun was doing in Britain. What confused me a little was that it seems like my gun was made in 1926 from the date code, so too late for WWI and too early for Lend-lease in WWII. Any ideas?

Here are some photos of the markings:
https://imgur.com/a/yB91rYB

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Phyrbird
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Re: British proof marks on Model 8?

Post by Phyrbird »

It is odd. It is a M8. While I know little of British proofs, could it be they were applied when the rifle was imported? I believe all that were imported legally had to be proofed before delivery.
Don't rule out the lend lease, I read somewhere there was a lot of stuff sent to be in service. Not only just the major military arms.
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mrparty
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Re: British proof marks on Model 8?

Post by mrparty »

Wouldn't you think that if it was lend-lease, then it would have been made later than 1926? Did Britain receive older manufactured rifles from lend-lease, or new ones?

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Hardrada55
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Re: British proof marks on Model 8?

Post by Hardrada55 »

I found a list of guns used by a hunting party of the Prince of Wales in India in 1921. Thought it was mildly interesting because of reference to two of our favorite firearms. Apparently the "Royals" were intrigued with the Remington Autoloader and took it "shooting". Imagine some guy in a sun helmet standing in a howdah with a Remington Model 8! I'd sure wish they published the serial numbers of those rifles. I can imagine that the reference to the ".370 Remington Automatic" was actually meant to read ".320".

Rifles :

H.R.H. the Prince of Wales, K.G., M.C.

1. One '400 bore express double-barrel rifle, No. 21906, by J.
Purdey & Sons, London. Barrels made of Sir Joseph Whitworth's
fluid-pressed steel, taking 47 grains low-pressure cordite and 230 grains bullet.

2. One '400 bore express double-barrel rifle, by J. Purdey &
Sons, London, taking 3 inch case, 47 grains low-pressure cordite,
and 230 grains nickel base bullet.

3. One "280 bore single-barrel high- velocity magazine rifle, by
Chas. Lancaster, No. 13097, taking 52 grains powder and 160 grains hollow bullet.

4. One '450 bore rifle, supplied by H.H. the Maharana of
Udaipur.

5. One '470 bore rifle, supplied by H.H. the Maharana of
Udaipur.

Sir Lionel Halsey

1. One double-barrelled 400-360, by E. J. Churchill.

2. One '256 Mannlicher.

Colonel Worgan

1. One Westley Richards '470 high-velocity double-barrelled, for
big game.

2. One '370 Remington automatic, for small game.

Lieut.-Colonel F. O'Kinealy

1. High velocity '470 cordite, by Manton, of Calcutta.

Sir Godfrey Thomas , Barf.

1. One '450 bore rifle, by George Gibbs.

2. One '280 bore Ross single-barrel magazine rifle. Property
of Lieut.-Colonel R. D. Waterhouse, C.B., C.M.G., Buckingham
Palace.

Captain Dudley North

1. One '470 bore double-barrel rifle, by Gibbs. (This rifle was used
by H.R.H. when he shot his rhino.)

The Honble. Bruce Ogilvy

1. One '470 double-barrel high velocity rifle, by Rigby. Property
of H. H. the Maharana of Udaipur.

2. One '286 bore Mannlicher magazine rifle, for chinkara, &c.

Colonel Harvey

1. One '450 H. V. Rigby.

2. One '375 H, V. Cogswell and Harrison, both double-barrelled.

Captain F. S. Poynder

1 . One '470 bore double-barrel high- velocity rifle, by Chas. Boswell, charge 75 grains axite and 500 grains bullet. "This was a
first- class all-around weapon which could not be bettered."

2. One ‘350 bore single-barrel automatic rifle, by Remington
Arms Company, firing 200 grains bullet. Little used on this tour,
but an efficient light rifle. Not recommended for normal all-round
use, owing to delicate mechanism being likely to jam under un-
favourable conditions of sand, &c.

Captain Poynder could not speak too highly of No. 1. He shot a
tiger and an elephant each with one shot, killing them instantly. It
is very powerful, not too heavy to be portable, and hits like a sledge
hammer.

Captain E. D. Metcalfe

1. One ‘450 bore Express rifle.

Lord Louis Mountbatten

1 One '450-'400 bore double-barrel high-velocity rifle, by Watson
Brothers. For tiger and rhino.

2. One '375 bore rifle by Watson Brothers. For buck and
gazelle.

Mr. H. A. Metcalfe

1. One "475 rifle, by W. J. Jeffrey, London.
...the right of citizens to bear arms is just one more guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against the tyranny which now appears remote in America..."
- Hubert H. Humphrey, "Gun" magazine, Feb. '60

mrparty
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Re: British proof marks on Model 8?

Post by mrparty »

Thank you for the insight, Hardrada. So it could have also been used as an expedition gun. Do you know if there were any expeditions around 1926?

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81police
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Re: British proof marks on Model 8?

Post by 81police »

Looks like standard British import proofs to me. I've seen another Model 8 or two with similar stamps.
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mrparty
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Re: British proof marks on Model 8?

Post by mrparty »

Yeah it could just be a regular rifle that was sent to Britain, which would actually still be pretty cool to have. I don't really know how common or uncommon those are.

Interestingly, I sent an email to Remington asking about the age of my Model 8 from it's serial number, and they gave me a date of 1918. This seems to conflict with what I thought was the date code though.

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Hardrada55
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Re: British proof marks on Model 8?

Post by Hardrada55 »

What's the date code and serial number?
...the right of citizens to bear arms is just one more guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against the tyranny which now appears remote in America..."
- Hubert H. Humphrey, "Gun" magazine, Feb. '60

mrparty
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Re: British proof marks on Model 8?

Post by mrparty »

The serial number is 41033 and what I assume to be the date code is RT, which is on the left side of the barrel assembly near the receiver.

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Hardrada55
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Re: British proof marks on Model 8?

Post by Hardrada55 »

The production code, "RT" indicates it was made in November 1926. According to John Henwood's book, "The Great Remington 8" though, the last rifle shipped from the factory in 1918 was 40,917 and in 1919 was 42,009, which puts your rifle 41033 shipped from the factory in 1919. A Remington log book, which Henwood thought represented receiver manufacturing dates, lists 41,654 as May 1920. Henwood gives examples in his book of up to a 5 year difference between the production code "WU" August 1935 and the shipping date table of 1930. I would go with the production code, everyone else does, too.
...the right of citizens to bear arms is just one more guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against the tyranny which now appears remote in America..."
- Hubert H. Humphrey, "Gun" magazine, Feb. '60

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81police
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Re: British proof marks on Model 8?

Post by 81police »

Good words from Hardrada55 above :D

Date your rifle by the "Remington date code" not the serial number (unless no date code is present). As previously stated, your rifle was made, and stamped by Remington in November, 1926. The receiver was made & serialized years prior but not the complete rifle. You got a 1926 gun.
Cam Woodall
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mrparty
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Re: British proof marks on Model 8?

Post by mrparty »

Thanks for the info guys. There's pretty much no doubt in me that this is a 1926 gun now. Would you guys know how commonly these guns were exported to Britain?

And lastly, what is the marking on the right side of the barrel next to the NP proof mark? It looks like loading data to me. Was it put there by Remington or the British proofers?

AlanD
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Re: British proof marks on Model 8?

Post by AlanD »

Look like standard London proof house markings.
Next to the Nitro Proof is the calibre then the case length then the charge weight in grains being nitro cellulose and what looks like a projectile weight.

Regards

AlanD
Sydney

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