Can We Discuss Specific Handloads For Model 8/81s?

[xtimberman]

...or is that supposed to be handled via PM?

I have a library full of .35 Remington loading data - but none of it specifically addresses Model-8 autoloaders and any special requirements...or their limitations. After spending some time on the search function here, I failed to come up with a thread covering favorite handloads for the Model-8/.35 Rem. combo - even using the Hornady FTX bullets on gun store shelves. We are somewhat hamstrung by having to use currently available gunpowders, but I see the new Hodgdon/Hornady Leverevolution gunpowder everywhere nowadays - in stores and online. It was specifically designed for cartridges of the class we are shooting in our Model-8s. So.....other than in Hornady factory cartridges, has anyone tried it in their old autos?

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/100917 ... ess-powder

[Sarge756]

Well you just had to go and open up a can of worms ! I`ve used the Leverevolution powder and bullets in 35 loads for my 336 Marlin and an 8 and 81. Had good results with it but nothing particularly outstanding when compared to groups shot with 200gr roundnose bullets with other powders. Not always trying for the fastest the 200 gr RN bullet at 1800/ 1900 fps does it everytime when it connects with a deer or hog.
The can of worms I referred to has to do with Hornady`s advertised velocity of their factory loaded 35 Rem Leverevolution ammunition with the 200gr FTX bullet. On the box they claim 2200 fps. I was curious when I bought my first box and broke down a couple rounds and weighed the components in an effort to duplicate the round when reloading. Surprise! Surprise ! The weight of the powder is 38.5 grs . Referencing the Hornady 9th Edition reloading manual 38.5grs of Leverevolution and the FTX bullet would give aprox.1975 fps . The max load for this bullet powder combo is 42.7gr. and that only yields 2100 fps. Wonder what the magic potion is that give an extra 225 fps with the 38.5 grs.
This of course will require some time at the bench and a trip to the range with the chrony.

[xtimberman]

"Surprise! Surprise ! The weight of the powder is 38.5 grs ."

That's very interesting....because I just got through pulling the bullet and powder from a .35 Rem. Hornady Leverolution cartridge (lot #3150431) and the charge weighs only 36.5 gr.! The gunpowder is the same granulation of the contents in my 1# container of Hodgdon Leverevolution, but is slightly darker. Must be some difference between what they use and what they sell to the public, with some variance between lots - much like milsurp 4895 vs. Cannister IMR-4895.

If you don't mind, I'd like to make note of your favorite 200r. RN loads in my data books - particularly any good ones using IMR3031, IMR4895, or Varget.

[Sarge756]

Interesting...Interesting.. Doing a bit of searching on the subject I find we are not the first to discover that Hornady LvR ammo is a paradox. Consensus seems to be that the powder that is available to consumers is the formulation used in their 30-30 ammo. The other calibers use a different formulation. I remember reading when it was introduced that they used a mixture of powders to obtain the boost in performance. While this violates a cardinal rule of reloading that you don`t mix powders of different burn rates it appears to work for them. So for now it would seem that the commercially available powder (30-30 formula) might be the ticket for 30 and 32Rem but not so much for the 35. I have loaded 30-30 for years with the idea of increasing range and accuracy and making it a 150yd + rifle. Best combo I found was 39grs of BLC2 behind a 130gr spire point. This load reserved for a Savage 340 bolt gun and s 99 Savage remembering no pointy bullets in tube magazines. Don`t see why that load wouldn`t work for the 30Rem model 8.
Frequent use of BLC2 for numerous calibers is the product of having an ample supply of it on hand. I load 35 Rem with it and use 37.2 gr behind 200gr rn .Also use it for 300Savage in a couple 81`s and Savage 99`s.
My experience with Varget has been limited to 257 Roberts and 250 Sav. Don`t have any pet loads with 3031 or 4895 for the 35.

[Adam Lee]

Joe,

I am embarrassed to mention that I have as of yet STILL not fired any of those 170 FN .32's you sent me. Why is that, you may ask? My Model 14 is still completely apart - it has been in limbo, waiting for my attention. Let's hope that situation changes very soon! (I think it will - in a few weeks.)

Second thing - the .35 has been great, what you sent me a few years back. Now, I am about to begin a new "project gun" - a .300 Savage Model 81 - would be interested in your feedback on ammo for this beast, I will try and send you a PM about that.

Thanks for your time!
Adam

[xtimberman]

"Frequent use of BLC2 for numerous calibers is the product of having an ample supply of it on hand. I load 35 Rem with it and use 37.2 gr behind 200gr rn."

Thanks Sarge, I've notated your favorite BL-C2 load in my Hornady#2 manual. Also sent an email to someone I know at Hornady in their reloading division to see if he will cast light on our Leverevolution gunpowder suspicions.

I would appreciate any other favorite Model-8/.35 Rem. loads with 200 gr. Jacketed or cast bullets.

Another related question specifically about .35 Rem. dies. None of the LGSs around here have any .35 Rem. dies in stock, so I can't examine any to check this for myself...but which brands of current-production reloading dies provide a bullet seating plug that will accommodate the pointy rubber-tipped FTX bullets from Hornady as well as standard jacketed and cast RNs and RNFPs? My shooting' buddy in San Marcos says his 1970s-vintage .35 dies have a seating plug that accommodates the standard bullet designs, but will smush and damage the pointy flex tips on the FTX bullets.

[Sarge756]

Your friend is not alone with problems with seating FTX bullets. You are correct that the RN/FP seater plug in regular dies will damage the soft pointy thing. There are solutions. Very careful pressure on the down stroke of the lever and stopping before you reach the point where the crimper would engage. Seat them carefully and softly to the cannelure and then use a seperate Lee factory crimp die to finish. Hornady offers dies for the FTX and may have the specially designed plug but am not sure if they are compatible with Lee or RCBS dies. RCBS will make you the plug but from experience plan on a wait for it and $20 bucks or so.
There is a DIY option. I`ve done it with other pointy bullets in the past and see no reason it wouldn`t work with the FTX`s. The seating plug is not hardened and drills easily. Drill press,1/4 inch bit,a cone shaped Dremel fine grit stone to polish/bevel the rim and you are done. Object is to allow contact with the copper jacket and avoid the pointy tip. Havn`t seen the speciality plugs I mentioned but believe they would be about the same as what you could make yourself for no wait and no $$.

[xtimberman]

Sarge,
My buddy uses a more temporary solution. He runs a loaded FTX cartridge into the seating die and lowers the plug until it just touches the rubber tip. Then he backs off the plug one turn, lowers the ram, unscrews the whole die, and squirts a generous dab of hot glue from his glue gun onto the base of the seating stem. Finally, and before the glue sets up...he runs the FTX cartridge back into the seating die for a few minutes - forming a temporary "plastic" seating plug perfectly shaped for the FTX bullet. Also claims that the glue plug has stayed in place for some time - even after loading a batch of RNs, too.

I'm just going to buy a set of Lee Dies for this cartridge and be done with it.
I just heard back from them and their bullet plug seats while pushing on the ogive of the bullet instead of the tip - theoretically working with any bullet profile.

[Sarge756]

I like your bud`s idea.Sometimes "simple" gets it done the best.

[xtimberman]

FYI...
I've heard from two reloading die manufacturers about custom bullet seating plugs. RCBS acknowledges that their current-production .35 Rem. seating plug will damage FTX bullets, but will make you a custom plug for $18+shipping. Lee believes theirs will work fine with .358" FTX bullets as-is, but will make you a custom one for $8+shipping. You just need to sent them a sample bullet.

[Cwbyers]

I have been playing with hand loads for my model 81s in 300 savage and 35 Remington for about 5 years. I only use published loads and try to stay on the lighter side.

For the 35 Remington I have two loads that work well.
Remington 9 1/2 large rifle primers
200 gr ftx bullet
40 gr leverevolution
2000 fps

Hornady 200 gr RN
41.5 gr lvr
2120 fps

For the 300 savage I have tried many powders
41.5 gr reloader 15
165 gr hornadyinterlock sp
5 shot group 2578 fps
This is the best hunting load for my rifle

I have a gunsmith friend that worked up a superformance load.
I have not found any published data for this anywhere.
It is almost as fast as Hornady factory ammo and really accurate.

I also have a varment load that is fun to shoot
110 gr Hornady v-max
40 gr varget
2500 fps

I am like all of you who hand load for older rifles, I start low and am very conscious of pressure signs.
I hope this is helpful..

[xtimberman]

Thank you Mr. Byers. I've included your loads in my reloading data library.

It is very good to have known first-hand Model-8/81 data for .35 Rem. on the relatively new Leverevolution gunpowder.

[Rebel]

How about .30 Remington?

I'm travelling for work and found a local gun shop with a hearty supply of Alliant, IMR and Hodgdon powder. This is not a common sight back home and I want to pick up a few pounds before I head home at the end of this week.

[norm]

I have been loading 35 Remington for over 20 years so I will share some of my load information. I shoot my Marlin 336 a lot more than my Model 8 since I shoot monthly lever action silhouette matches at Wagner,SD. I load nothing but cast bullets in my 35's mostly the RCBS 35-200-FN which weighs 200 to 210 gr. depending on alloy. In my Model 8 18 gr. of old Hercules 2400 operated the action at 80-90 degrees F. but in October at 40 degrees it didn't so ambient temperature has some effect on operation. I emphasize this was old Hercules 2400 not the current Alliant 2400 which is faster burning so use caution if you use the newer 2400. I have used Reloder 7 with a 200 gr. cast bullet. 24 gr operated the action in cold weather but I never chronographed that load. A load I have used a lot in my Marlin is 36 gr. of Varget with the 200 gr. RCBS cast bullet. Chronographs 1900 fps at the muzzle of the 20 inch barrel. It will operate the action of my Model 8 quite vigorously but I haven't chronographed it in the Model 8. This load is very reliable at taking down the rams at 200 yards and has also accounted for several deer and one antelope. I once splurged and bought a box of Federal 200 gr. factory loads and they chronographed 2000 fps so my cast bullet is getting close to factory load level. I use a Lee collet die for neck sizing and seldom full length resize cases. I know most gun writers tell you to f/l size for lever actions and autoloaders but my experience makes me question how much 35 Remington reloading they have actually done. I should add that I check fired cases with a Wilson case gauge. Also in reloading caution is a virtue.

[xtimberman]

The cone-shaped cavity in the seating plug provided with the Lee .35 Remington die set will perfectly accommodate seating Hornady FTX bullets without damaging the flex tip or deforming the copper jacket in any way. Likewise for the 200r. Hornady RNs and SPs.

I do have a question, though... This particular Model-8 has little or no throat reamed into the rifling ahead of the chamber, and 200 gr. Hornady RNs and SPs will contact the rifling (and not fully chamber) when properly loaded in cases trimmed to 1.910". The 200 gr. FTX bullets taper straight from the cannelure and do not contact the rifling. How do you accommodate loading other bullets, like the 200 gr. RN and SP? BTW...I'm working with only Hornady brass since that is all I've been able to acquire.

[xtimberman]

Here is a photo of the seating plug that comes with the Lee .35 Rem. die set:


It will seat the widely-available Hornady FTX bullet without harming the flex-tip at all:




In fact...it will seat all three of these Hornady 200gr. bullet designs without damage: