Let's revitalize the 30 Remington (Not AR)

Ask about your Model 8 & 81
Post Reply
User avatar
Phyrbird
Posts: 892
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:53 pm

Let's revitalize the 30 Remington (Not AR)

Post by Phyrbird » Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:31 pm

Ladies and Gents, Let us start a project to jump start a rejuvenated 30 Remington interest. I submit there could be a lot of usefulness for a rimless cartridge that duplicates 30-30 ballistics. A 110 gr pill makes a good varmint round, the 150 gr is a great all around medium range solution, plus I have some ideas that could bear fruit. We need more resources for our target and hunting needs.
How about this for a opportunity?
P1010861.JPG
P1010861.JPG (91 KiB) Viewed 6286 times
P1010862.JPG
P1010862.JPG (94 KiB) Viewed 6286 times
These are currently reloads that could average 3700 fps, with a potential of 4200 fps max velocity. That's using a sabot 223 projectile weighing in at about 55 grains. These ballistics are near 220 swift capabilities. And a 22 inch barrel could increase the speed over the 16" barrel given in the load data sheet.
There is currently a 6.5mm wildcat based on the 30 Remington, Why not a factory produced sabot round that could be a kick start for a whole new era of John Browning genius at work in the field?
Phyrbird
SOKY

User avatar
Hardrada55
Posts: 230
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:40 pm
Location: Southwest Oklahoma
Contact:

Re: Let's revitalize the 30 Remington (Not AR)

Post by Hardrada55 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:19 am

I really like my .30 caliber Remington Model 8 and was disappointed when they stopped manufacture of .30 in (was it?) 1997. I like the .30 Rem "Accelerator" idea. My own "pet" would be a Remington Model 8 chambering the 6mm Niedner Rimless Magnum cartridge, which was .25 Rem necked down to 6mm. I've never found any load data or ballistics.
...the right of citizens to bear arms is just one more guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against the tyranny which now appears remote in America..."
- Hubert H. Humphrey, "Gun" magazine, Feb. '60

User avatar
Sarge756
Posts: 762
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 10:17 am
Location: N.Florida on the coast

Re: Let's revitalize the 30 Remington (Not AR)

Post by Sarge756 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:40 pm

The sabot rounds in 30 cal are interesting and do offer some devastating terminal results especially on a live target. I dusted a coyote several years back with a 30-06 accelerator at about 75 yards. The term ' dusted' certainly applied. My experience with the 06 and other 30 cal rifles with sabots was a bit disappointing when it came to accuracy. You just can`t reinvent the wheel and substitute a piece of plastic for a quality barrel of the right twist with proper bullet and load. For short range they are fun and I usually carry a couple in my pocket when hunting in case a yote comes in close while I`m in the stand.
".......ain't many troubles that a man cain't fix
With seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."

User avatar
Phyrbird
Posts: 892
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:53 pm

Re: Let's revitalize the 30 Remington (Not AR)

Post by Phyrbird » Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:53 pm

Sarge,

I know accuracy and point of aim are issues with these as any rounds. However, My (mine) Dad's 06 M760 will mess up a milk jug at 300 paces, the 30-06 Accels would group in under a quarter at 100yds. :mrgreen: My 308 semi auto will group under a quarter at 75 yds with iron sights. ;) And hit the same hole 150 gr rounds use. A lot depends on the rifle, more on the shooter.

I'm also on the track of another idea for tuning the M8/81s for accuracy. Need rounds and range time to prove it out.
Phyrbird
SOKY

DWalt
Posts: 510
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 1:18 pm
Location: San Antonio & Brackettville TX

Re: Let's revitalize the 30 Remington (Not AR)

Post by DWalt » Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:59 pm

Hardrada55 wrote:I really like my .30 caliber Remington Model 8 and was disappointed when they stopped manufacture of .30 in (was it?) 1997. I like the .30 Rem "Accelerator" idea. My own "pet" would be a Remington Model 8 chambering the 6mm Niedner Rimless Magnum cartridge, which was .25 Rem necked down to 6mm. I've never found any load data or ballistics.
The last time I looked, Remington ceased factory loadings of .30 Rem in 1997, at least it disappeared from their catalog then. My previous experience with .30 Accellerator reloads was somewhat less than overwhelming. Best I could ever do with .30-'06 was about 3" groups at 100 yards, and that after some serious experimentation. I think I still have several hundred bullets somewhere. My last experiments along that line of about 5-6 years ago involved loading them in .30 Carbine for use in my Ruger Blackhawk of that caliber. I could never get anywhere near the velocities I expected. And they would not function in my GI carbine reliably.

I'd be surprised if it's possible to get enough recoil impulse with sabot loads in .30 Rem to function the M8/81 action, as the .22 bullets are so light. Of course they would always work manually.

User avatar
Phyrbird
Posts: 892
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:53 pm

Re: Let's revitalize the 30 Remington (Not AR)

Post by Phyrbird » Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:58 am

We gonna find out, wish me luck...
Phyrbird
SOKY

User avatar
Roger
Posts: 644
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:41 pm
Location: Iowa

Re: Let's revitalize the 30 Remington (Not AR)

Post by Roger » Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:26 am

Sir, I also am working on some future projects to "spice up" our old springpoles. I'm still on the trail of a model 81 -6.8spc prototype. I now have 2 ex-marine corp. machinists who are interested in exploring this concept. They build from scratch,some highly accurate target rifles. So i know they have the ability to do this project. Me being able to afford it and to justify the monetary outlay, are two points of contension for me. Time to work on these projects,is always an issue for me also. Our work is extremely busy. Never the less ,i'll eventually get this done.
On another related accuracy subject, I've noticed a direct correlation between barrel nut/barrel jacket bushing wear and tear.And accuracy at the range bench. I shoot these rifles at least 2 or 3 times a month at the shooting range/bench. It's very similar to the JMB designed Colt pistols with barrel bushings. These same machinists,think that some tighter tolerances with the barrel nut/bushing juncture,may increase accuracy. Now,Mitch is always talking about minute of deer accuracy with these rifles,(lol), but wouldn't it be nice to increase your chances of making better shots on the game animals these guns were designed for? I personally find much satisfaction with making great groups on paper with 80 to 100 year old rifles. You reloaders out there also know about fine tuning pet loads for these guns and the satisfaction you all get with good results. So in a nutshell, we will move forward here on both projects, but it may take a lot of time to get anywhere. Stay tuned.
Thanks for your time,
Roger
Roger
raw4555@gmail.com

DWalt
Posts: 510
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 1:18 pm
Location: San Antonio & Brackettville TX

Re: Let's revitalize the 30 Remington (Not AR)

Post by DWalt » Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:41 am

I've always thought that a 6.8 SPC conversion would be very practical, in that about the only change needed is the addition of a new barrel. However, the fly in the ointment is the possibility that lighter springs would be needed due to the lower recoil impulse of the 6.8. That will have to remain unknown until someone makes up such a conversion.

TRX
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:53 am

Re: Let's revitalize the 30 Remington (Not AR)

Post by TRX » Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:49 am

Any range reports on the sabots yet?

I picked up a bag of sabots from E. Arthur Brown a while back, thinking that they might be fun to play with. I haven't been able to get to any reloading or shooting since then, though.

While reading up on the Accelerators I found that they were introduced in 1977. I've been unable to determine for sure if they're still in production; many sources say Remington stopped making them in 2007, and about that time a local shop had barrels full of saboted .223 bullets for sale, but the cartridges are still available new from various sources. Could new New Old Stock or something.

Anyway, they were in production for 30 years or so. Remington claimed good accuracy. Net.lore generally denigrates them, talking about "shotgun patterns" as far as accuracy.

Remington still maintains the ammunition should be as accurate as standard bullets. I knew that some bullet shapes are sensitive to twist, and that production .30-06s run from 1:10 to 1:14, more modern rifles tending toward a slower twist. I looked up .30-caliber and .223 twists, compared bullet weights and velocities, and found while the .223 rifles generally have much faster twists, the higher velocity of the saboted bullet should spin it at about the same RPM through the slower-twist .30 barrel.

My tentative theory, which I can't test until I can get some range time, is... those sabots are plastic, and much softer than a gilding-metal jacketed bullet. I know from experience that if I push a cast-lead bullet too hard, it'll start to strip in the rifling. I think the plastic might have a similar problem.

Remington makes both rifles and ammunition. When they did accuracy testing, they probably either used a new rifle or one in excellent condition. Nice, sharp, deep rifling would bite properly into the plastic sabot. But in Grandpa's old '03 or '94, rifling damaged by corrosive ammo, bad cleaning practices, or simple wear and tear, there might not be anough of a "bite" to spin the sabot properly. And some rifling designs are shallow; the Marlin "Micro-Groove" is a good example.

User avatar
Adam Lee
Posts: 642
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:17 am
Location: Alexandria, VA

Re: Let's revitalize the 30 Remington (Not AR)

Post by Adam Lee » Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:21 am

Phyrbird wrote:We gonna find out, wish me luck...
So, Carl: how did the .30 Rem sabots shoot? Or were those reloads you had shown a different caliber?

You gots to tells us!!!

And Roger: anything more you can tease/tell us about your 6.8 SPC efforts?

thanks guys
Adam
I am a regular joe, consisting of 78% coffee, 12% hot air, 9% organizational abilities, and 1% luck.

User avatar
Phyrbird
Posts: 892
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:53 pm

Re: Let's revitalize the 30 Remington (Not AR)

Post by Phyrbird » Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:59 pm

Moving Daughter :shock:

When I get to the range I'll try to chronograph just for fun. Let you know soon as..... :oops:
Phyrbird
SOKY

User avatar
Phyrbird
Posts: 892
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:53 pm

Re: Let's revitalize the 30 Remington (Not AR)

Post by Phyrbird » Sun May 18, 2014 5:28 pm

Just a note, they still haven't made it to the range.
A side note: I'm loading 7.62 Tok with them and 45C with 158g 357s using sabots too. We will have a range report when they go...
Phyrbird
SOKY

User avatar
Adam Lee
Posts: 642
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:17 am
Location: Alexandria, VA

Re: Let's revitalize the 30 Remington (Not AR)

Post by Adam Lee » Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:58 am

Phyrbird wrote:Just a note, they still haven't made it to the range.
A side note: I'm loading 7.62 Tok with them and 45C with 158g 357s using sabots too. We will have a range report when they go...
Hey Carl,

Always wondered how the sabot rounds performed for you with the .30 Rem out of a Model 8 or a Model 14. Also, did you get some time to shoot the Tokarev rounds or .45 Colt rounds with sabots?

The accuracy isn't so much the big deal for me, I think it's just very creative to try out such interesting bullet combinations in terms of velocity/cavitation and whether or not semiautomatic rifles/pistols will actually cycle.

Please let us know if you ever get the chance! Especially "teased" by the notion of a .45 Colt six-gun blasting .357 slugs via sabot. I just think that's very creative!

have fun
Adam
I am a regular joe, consisting of 78% coffee, 12% hot air, 9% organizational abilities, and 1% luck.

User avatar
Phyrbird
Posts: 892
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:53 pm

Re: Let's revitalize the 30 Remington (Not AR)

Post by Phyrbird » Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:47 pm

Phyrbird wrote:Just a note, they still haven't made it to the range.
A side note: I'm loading 7.62 Tok with them and 45C with 158g 357s using sabots too. We will have a range report when they go...
:( :( :cry: :cry: :roll:
Phyrbird
SOKY

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests