Model 8 in 300 Savage?!?

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oscarflytyer
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Model 8 in 300 Savage?!?

Post by oscarflytyer » Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:15 am

OK - from all the research I have done/seen, the Model 8 did NOT come in 300 Savage. 300 Savage was only offered later, in the Model 81.

Reason I ask is TWO sellers have listings for Model 8s in 300 Savage on Gunbroker right now. One is DEF an 8, as seen in the pix. No show of caliber on bbl. Other one can't tell anything by pix.

Is it fair to assume that IF the receiver IS a Model 8, and the bbl IS 300 Savage, that the rifle is a Model 8 with a newer Model 81 300 Savage replacement bbl?

Also - is it possible to change barrels/calibers on a Model 8/81?? Didn't think it was. Thanx

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81police
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Re: Model 8 in 300 Savage?!?

Post by 81police » Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:33 am

oscarflytyer, great questions.

Is it fair to assume that IF the receiver IS a Model 8, and the bbl IS 300 Savage, that the rifle is a Model 8 with a newer Model 81 300 Savage replacement bbl?

You would be correct in assuming this. Another question that typically follows that one is, "okay did the factory convert it to 300Sav?" Here's the deal, I don't know any way of knowing if they did or didn't. I have heard it said "if it has a repair code, the factory probably did it". Well I'm not even sure Remington put repair codes on rifles for conversions b/c they're not technically repairs. The second thing is there's no way to identify, with certainty, that if a repair code is present that it's even for the barrel change, meaning it could have been for something else unrelated. The greater likelihood is that the majority of conversions were done in gunsmith shops and garages. Corey please correct me or give us your thoughts on this?

Also - is it possible to change barrels/calibers on a Model 8/81??

It is most certainly possible. The thing to keep in mind though is that buffer springs & recoil springs vary from caliber group to caliber group. This may get confusing but basically the 25Rem, 30Rem, & 32Rem all share the same recoil spring, but the 25Rem has its own special buffer spring. The 35Rem & 300Sav share a different set of recoil & buffer springs from the 25,30,32. The different springs are important for function & longevity of the long recoil action. Not enough spring tension and you've got components banging violently against each other. Too much tension and the action may not operate reliably. The important factor in changing calibers is to make sure the springs correspond (the extractors & bolts are also different per caliber group), and have a gunsmith check headspace. I know that was a lot of info for your question, hope it all makes sense!
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DWalt
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Re: Model 8 in 300 Savage?!?

Post by DWalt » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:24 am

As mentioned, the bolt face recess diameter would be critical, Definitely, .25, .30, and .32 bolts would not work with a .300 Savage barrel as its diameter would be too small to accept the .300 Savage cartridge head. I don't know if the same bolt face recess diameter is used for .35 and .300. In any event, I would not trust such a Frankengun enough to buy it from an auction site unless it was for parts.

oscarflytyer
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Re: Model 8 in 300 Savage?!?

Post by oscarflytyer » Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:12 pm

Thanx guys. Kinda what I thought from my research 0 but must admit I am VERY new at these! But FWIW, there were TWO of these on sale on GB, from two diff sellers! I asked the one guy and he was confirmed that receiver and bbl (shroud?) had same serial #. No clue what might/not say... I know the one sold. no idea on other. But agree that I would not buy one. Thanx

oscarflytyer
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Re: Model 8 in 300 Savage?!?

Post by oscarflytyer » Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:57 pm

Follow up (dumb) question.

See where you guys say that a bbl/caliber change is possible in an 81. Also that the 300 Savage and 35 Rem share the same spring set, AND it sounds like the same bolt/bolt face...

If all the above is true, what does it take to swap out an 81 from 300 Savage to 35 Remington? Doable? Barrel swap only? Or could you swap the entire barrel/spring/shroud assembly?

Reason I am asking is that I also have Marlin 35 Rem. And just saw where some guys have extra barrels.

Thanx

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81police
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Re: Model 8 in 300 Savage?!?

Post by 81police » Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:13 pm

If it were me I'd swap entire barrel assemblies & check headspace
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Adam Lee
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Re: Model 8 in 300 Savage?!?

Post by Adam Lee » Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:13 am

81police wrote:If it were me I'd swap entire barrel assemblies & check headspace
Along these lines, I got to thinking as well.

I am and have always been a fan of "convertibles" - especially guns. Having one base receiver/pistol frame/etc and being able to swap a barrel assembly is a cool thing.

Easy with just about any old shotgun. I still am on the trail of a short length barrel for my 720 Savage.

Same for old 1911's - barrel & slide swaps so you can shoot a couple different calibers with one gun. Nice! I'm partial to the .45ACP and .38 Super for such a combo.

I also was thinking about my new/old 1908 Model 8 in .35Rem, and just how cool it would be to have a front half barrel assembly in .300Sav to swap for some more "punch" if I wanted it. I know I'd have to think about headspace, sure, but what about bolt extractors? Are they identical between .35 and .300?

OK, I know - more fuel for the fire!

thanks. Adam
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Sarge756
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Re: Model 8 in 300 Savage?!?

Post by Sarge756 » Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:19 pm

Adam, When I read your post another immediately came to mind. Take a look at this one by our Jack of "Jackitus" fame. This shows the far end of your thoughts and the extremes possible. Worth another look for all.Outstanding work.
Joe
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1898
".......ain't many troubles that a man cain't fix
With seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."

DWalt
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Re: Model 8 in 300 Savage?!?

Post by DWalt » Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:49 pm

"Same for old 1911's - barrel & slide swaps so you can shoot a couple different calibers with one gun. Nice! I'm partial to the .45ACP and .38 Super for such a combo."

Very feasible. I have a WWI-era 1911 that will handle .45 ACP, .400 Cor-Bon. .38 Super, 9X23mm, and 9X19mm - plus a .22 LR conversion kit. All it takes, besides the receiver, are two slides, 4 barrels, two different magazine types (.45 and .38 Super), an assortment of recoil springs, two ejectors, plus the .22 kit. I carry everything in a fitted briefcase. By the way, 9mm Largo and 9mm Steyr can also be used in the .38 Super barrel. The concept of a convertible caliber pistol is popular where there are limits on the number of weapons one can own. But not so much here - yet.

Speaking of the latter, read this: http://marketdailynews.com/2013/04/23/p ... -approval/

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Adam Lee
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Re: Model 8 in 300 Savage?!?

Post by Adam Lee » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:31 am

DWalt wrote:"Same for old 1911's - barrel & slide swaps so you can shoot a couple different calibers with one gun. Nice! I'm partial to the .45ACP and .38 Super for such a combo."

Very feasible. I have a WWI-era 1911 that will handle .45 ACP, .400 Cor-Bon. .38 Super, 9X23mm, and 9X19mm - plus a .22 LR conversion kit. All it takes, besides the receiver, are two slides, 4 barrels, two different magazine types (.45 and .38 Super), an assortment of recoil springs, two ejectors, plus the .22 kit. I carry everything in a fitted briefcase. By the way, 9mm Largo and 9mm Steyr can also be used in the .38 Super barrel. The concept of a convertible caliber pistol is popular where there are limits on the number of weapons one can own. But not so much here - yet.
A friend of Dave (racing junkie) and I has this "affliction" in a variety of handguns - Glocks for example - he calls it "conversion madness!"

I waited too long for cash to free up last year when one of our friends had a Colt .38 Super barreled slide on an early Essex frame, and some lucky pup snagged it for $400 bucks. I was planning on turning that Essex frame gun into a multi-barreled "fun gun" just as you have described. On the pitiful teacher's salary I enjoy, those are the kinds of deals I am forced to look for - kind of hard to swallow, when I see so many good deals come up, and I always seem to have "end of the month disease"!
Many folks out there know exactly what I'm talking about, whether you're retired or still a slave to the man!

Adam
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Adam Lee
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Re: Model 8 in 300 Savage?!?

Post by Adam Lee » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:36 am

Sarge756 wrote:Adam, When I read your post another immediately came to mind. Take a look at this one by our Jack of "Jackitus" fame. This shows the far end of your thoughts and the extremes possible. Worth another look for all.Outstanding work.
Joe
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1898
Joe, all I can say is: :shock:

As well as this - I'm glad we have Jack on our side, when it comes to teaching folks the difference between "bubba" gunsmith jobs and museum-quality restorations!

Jeez, I gotta spend a couple hours now digging through this site again, just to get my daily endorphin rush from oogling over Jack's gun collection!

Adam
I am a regular joe, consisting of 78% coffee, 12% hot air, 9% organizational abilities, and 1% luck.

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Phyrbird
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Re: Model 8 in 300 Savage?!?

Post by Phyrbird » Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:08 pm

Guys,
I don't mean to put a damper on a project... I've both a 300 and 35R bolt(s). the 300 savage bolt face recess is about .004" - .006" larger ID than the 35R. :ugeek: The depth is very identical. IE the 300 Savage cartridge rim will NOT fit in the 35R bolt. If you try to chamber 300 S with a 35R bolt it cannot seat all the way. The other way around will probably work, the way JMB designed these fine rifles the chamber covers the case to the rim. :) Reminder, be sure to use 300Sav springs in the barrel Jacket, it's important. The 25-30-32R cartridges have the same rim and headspace datum, so this issue is not a problem with these rounds.
In addition, I strongly suggest a competent smith check headspaces on these projects. Mr VerSchneider, I'd be very interested in your opinion and expertise in this matter, please.

Thanks,
CWS
Phyrbird
SOKY

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Roger
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Re: Model 8 in 300 Savage?!?

Post by Roger » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:45 am

Just to throw my hat into ring, once upon a time while trying to decide what was wrong with one of my 300 savage m-81 s. I took apart a m-81 in 35 rem. just to look at the 2 recoil springs located in the stocks of these great rifles. Much to my surprise,the two springs were a different length. I don't know if the 35 rem. spring was more worn and compressed than the 300 spring or not. But the 35 was shorter. So i installed it into the 300 sav. rifle and went to the range. Guess what, it functioned perfectly. So once again I'll stress the fact that I don't know if the 300 sav.spring was supposed to be longer or not. But I do know that ,that one was longer than the 35 rem. spring in the other gun. Maybe it was a replacement unit. Who knows the answer to that question? Hopefully somebody here does.
Thanks for your time,
Roger
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DWalt
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Re: Model 8 in 300 Savage?!?

Post by DWalt » Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:16 pm

If someone has the hard data, it would be good to describe exactly what springs would be correct for each caliber, i.e., recoil spring, buffer spring, and action spring. Usual identification of springs is by specification of outside diameter, spring wire diameter, number of turns, and free (uncompressed) length (but of course the latter can change with age if left in partial compression).

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Roger
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Re: Model 8 in 300 Savage?!?

Post by Roger » Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:31 pm

DeWalt, I think you may have touched on the reason that those two springs were a different length. Old age and extended compression. I sure hope someone has the correct data here. I'm sure that alot of us can benefit from the right answers.
Thanks for your time,
Roger
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