Need Ballistics Opinion

Ask about your Model 8 & 81
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jack1653
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Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:52 pm

Need Ballistics Opinion

Post by jack1653 »

Hey Guys,

I think it was about three years ago, I posted a question about a Model 81 that was in a collection I had acquired. The owner had bought the rifle and did not know any of the history of the rifle. He had it tagged as a 22-250 which I knew was not a correct caliber for the Model 8 or 81. The barrel extension is stamped as a 300 Savage but the barrel had been changed and is now a 22-250. I had the chamber checked by my gunsmith and he confirmed that it is indeed a 22-250. The gun is clean and other than being tapped for a scope mount and is in really good condition. There doesn't appear to be any changes in the barrel springs.

There are several members that have joined since I made the posting and many of you are far more knowledgable than I am about ballistics, pressures, bulllet weights, re-loading, etc. I would welcome your comments about the swap of barrels and the potential issues of shooting the caliber 22-250 in the model 81. I am not into re-loading like many of you so what would you recommend as the ideal load for the 22-250? Would I be better off to buy factory loads or have someone load up what I need? What kind of recoil would be expected when shooting the 22-250 as compared to the 35 Rem or the 300 Savage?

Thanks in advance for the comments and advice.

Regards,

jack1653
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Sarge756
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Location: N.Florida on the coast

Re: Need Ballistics Opinion

Post by Sarge756 »

Jack,you never disappoint when coming up with a new twist. What you have described is "That horse of a different color". Perhaps the prior owner made a trip to Oz to come up with that idea.I can`t imagine what the intended purpose would have been. The 22-250 is a fine round in the right rifle.It was through the genius of Charles Newton working in concert with Arthur Savage that the parent of the 22-250 was born,the 250-3000 or as we know it today the 250 Savage.The initial impetus for the design was that Savage wanted a center-fire round for the 1899 rifle that produced a velocity of 3,000 fps.That kind of speed was in rare company at the time (1915) with only a few around that were in that category.They were mostly a bit obscure like the 280 Ross.In the 30`s Wildcatters began working with the 250 Savage necking it to 22 caliber and the 22-250 Varmiter emerged, later to become the 22-250 when the case was standarized. I have no doubt, that though never intended to take deer sized animals that the 22-250 has taken a bunch of them.It is a great long range varmit round that shoots very flat, and again ,in the right rifle is very accurate.
Bullet weights run from 35/75 grs.With the lighter bullets it is an absolute screamer and can exceed 4,000 fps.Accuracy with a particular rifle depends on matching the bullet to the rate of twist of the barrel. A one in nine twist favoring the heavier bullets with a one in fourteen or sixteen for the lighter ones.
I`d say recoil in an 81 would be a non-issue. Remember that "for every action there is a....... You are shooting a tiny pill so I wouldn`t expect much........ reaction.
What to shoot? have the gunsmith determine rate of twist and that will give you an idea of which factory loaded ammo to buy.Either that or try a couple three different ones and see which one performs the best. Reloading? I`d be very cautious.The reloader of any of the Hyper-velocity 22 rounds needs to be experienced and almost anal in attention to detail and care when loading this round. There are many calbers out there that are forgiving if you make a mistake but the 22-250 is not one of them. Mistakes measuring for overall length, weight of charge or matching bullet weight and type to the charge might cause a deformed primer or a split case with other chamberings but in the 22-250 they can give a very nasty surprise.Note that you are pushing a little bullet through a little hole and the attendant expanding gas needs to be able to exit also. A mistake with the aforementioned and a spike in chamber pressure can exceed the strength of the chamber.I have seen it happen and was luckily not close enough to get hit with a piece of shrapnel from a real nice 788 Remington.Shooter sustained minor injuries and was surprised that just a few more grains of powder caused such a ruckus.Bet he never tried it again.
Will be interested in the accuracy you get. Certainly a 22-250 is much better suited in a bull barrel bolt target rifle with a big high power scope but who knows your 81 might be a tack driver. This chambering in an 81 is a puzzle . A 250 Savage (Fine deer round) would have been great.What wuz they thinkin?
Joe
".......ain't many troubles that a man cain't fix
With seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."
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jack1653
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Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:52 pm

Re: Need Ballistics Opinion

Post by jack1653 »

Hey Joe,

Thanks for the feedback. That is an interesting history of the 22-250. I will take the rifle back to the gunsmith to have the analysis made that you have suggested. I know he loads this ammunition and I think I will have him take a few different loads and have him do some test firing to see what kind of results he gets.

Since the receiver is already tapped for a mount, I'll have to see what kind of mount that will fit the holes and then put a scope back on the rifle. If it should turn out to be a tack driver, it will make a good pig shooter. I'll post some results later.

Regards,

Jack
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81police
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Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:12 pm
Location: TEXAS

Re: Need Ballistics Opinion

Post by 81police »

I know you already had it checked out Jack, but one caliber conversion which seems to pop up from time to time (Corey Creamer can confirm this) is the 250-3000 Savage. I remember his dad, Bob, mentioning to me once a company up north did the conversions for a while back in the day. Is there a way your gunsmith could have had that confused for a 25-06 maybe? I don't know? Could be worth another check.
Cam Woodall
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texassako
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:27 pm

Re: Need Ballistics Opinion

Post by texassako »

Would it cycle the action with .22 bullets? You might need heavy for caliber bullets. If the .25 Rem can have issues with light <100gr bullets with its lighter spring, then your plan to have the gunsmith test it might be best. It is also a higher pressure round, 53k MAP.
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