Rem Model 8 Slam fires

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Big Dooley
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Rem Model 8 Slam fires

Post by Big Dooley » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:31 pm

I received a nice Remington Model 8 this past Christmas. It is a .30 Remington and is in really good condition. The problem I am having at the range is that when I load the magazine and use the bolt release to let the bolt go forward, the rifle fires as soon as the bolt closes. I have taken it down and the hammer and trigger both appear to be in good condition. The notches on them are not filed or rounded off. Does anyone know what could be causing this problem? I really want this rifle to work properly. Thank you for your help. Big Dooley.
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81police
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Re: Rem Model 8 Slam fires

Post by 81police » Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:32 am

Dooley, welcome to the site and sorry to hear about your rifle. I don't know when your rifle was made but early Model 8's sometimes had this problem as they were not mfg with a firing pin spring. As a result later Model 8's were made with a firing pin spring as well as a firing pin buffer spring.

drawing info from 8/81 service manual and other sources here are some suggestions,

A) due to repeated strikes from the hammer, the back end of the firing pin is mushroomed thereby lodging the firing pin in the bolt carrier.
- remove and inspect firing pin & springs (if there)

B)the hammer or trigger engaging surfaces are worn/broken
- bend front prongs of trigger to slightly close gap between front and rear notches

B)broken trigger spring
- fit new trigger spring
Cam Woodall
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Big Dooley
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Re: Rem Model 8 Slam fires

Post by Big Dooley » Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:54 am

Thanks 81Police, my rifle was made in 1928. Do you know if this prior to firing pin springs? I am pretty sure that it has to do with the inertia of the bolt when released by the bolt release that is causing this issue. When you pull the bolt handle and release the bolt slowly, it doesn't do this. Also, the hammer and trigger engage the way they are supposed to so I am pretty sure it is a problem with the firing pin itself. I will investigate further and see what I find. Thanks.
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imfuncity
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Re: Rem Model 8 Slam fires

Post by imfuncity » Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:58 am

Great thread. Interestingly, this is the first time (At least that I remember :? ) that I have heard of this issue! Will be watching (Hint: pictures) to see what your find. :ugeek:
Though defensive violence will always be “a sad necessity” in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men. - St. Augustine

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Re: Rem Model 8 Slam fires

Post by ctgodog » Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:02 pm

When I first got my Model 81, in 35 Rem, it was doing the same thing....when I took it apart and put it in cocked mode, I could see that the trigger and the hammer were not meshing up right. A little filing work on the back side of the hammer, allowed them to hook up properly, and no more slam fires. Make sure that they hook up properly and completely. Mine were just barely engaging, thus when the bolt was released, the hammer would disengage from the lock up and the rifle would fire.

If they are locking up completely, then it could indeed be the firing pin like Cam suggested.

Hope this helps.

Clint
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Big Dooley
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Re: Rem Model 8 Slam fires

Post by Big Dooley » Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:18 am

Update on my Model 8. I haven't given up on it, just been really busy and haven't had the time to spend with it lately. I plan to try and check the firing pin and hammer and trigger as described in the replies above. Thanks for the information. I will check it out and let you know what I find.
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Re: Rem Model 8 Slam fires

Post by DWalt » Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:08 pm

I would be more likely to believe it was related to hammer-sear engagement. One way to tell would to look at a primer for a round that did not fire on bolt closure to see if it was dimpled more than very slightly. Might pull the bullet and dump the powder from a casing (or reprime a sized casing), put the primed case in the chamber, and let the bolt slam shut to see what happens. That would be the worst-case condition.

The original M16 from the early Vietnam-era had a slam-fire propensity. It took lightening the firing pin plus use of a less impact-sensitive primer to cure it. See: http://www.fulton-armory.com/%5Cfaqs%5C ... amFire.htm
At least partially - I have seen a number of out-of-battery firings of M16 rifles and M4 carbines. Unfortunately, last I knew, the exact cause of those OOB incidents had never been conclusively determined. The common denominator was a cracked/broken cam pin. Whether that was a cause or an effect was unknown. Most recent case I am aware of was about two months ago, involving an M4.

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Big Dooley
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Re: Rem Model 8 Slam fires

Post by Big Dooley » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:10 am

I have checked the hammer and sear engagement and it seems fine. If you press the bolt release and let the bolt go forward on an empty chamber, you can see the hammer is still in the cocked position. The hammer is not falling which leads me to believe the firing pin is the problem. I am going to disassemble it and remove the bolt and inspect the firing pin. Does anyone know how far the firing pin should protrude from the face of the bolt? The man who had the rifle before me had a gunsmith replace the firing pin before I received it. I am not sure if it was replaced correctly or not.
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Re: Rem Model 8 Slam fires

Post by DWalt » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:15 am

Unless struck by the hammer, the firing pin should not protrude at all. Before going to all that trouble, try a primed case in the chamber first and see what happens. There may well be something causing the firing pin to stick forward - maybe it's bent or something, if you are certain there is no sear engagement problem.

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Big Dooley
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Re: Rem Model 8 Slam fires

Post by Big Dooley » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:04 am

I am sure the hammer and sear are ok on this one. I am wondering if it has the wrong firing pin installed in it or one that has been made. Not sure what the gunsmith who worked on it did when he had it. I will try the primed empty case and see what happens. I'll let you know what I find. Thanks. I want to get this rifle working properly so I can hunt with it this fall.
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Big Dooley
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Re: Rem Model 8 Slam fires

Post by Big Dooley » Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:07 am

Update on the slam fire issue. I disassembled the rifle last night and when I checked the bolt the firing pin was sticking at times and would not return like it should. I took the firing pin out and the end that strikes the primer is bent and was lodging in the bolt and that was preventing it from returning to its resting position. The return spring on the firing pin was not able to pull the pin back into the bolt so I think I have finally found the cause of the slam fire. I will look for a new firing pin to replace this one and I think it will be ready to go. Does anyone have suggestions on the best place to find a new firing pin? I am familiar with Gunbroker.com and other auction sites. Any help would be appreciated.
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jack1653
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Re: Rem Model 8 Slam fires

Post by jack1653 » Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:27 am

Hey Big Dooley,

I might suggest that if you have the firing pin out of the bolt, you can try and straighten it by placing it on a flat piece of steel and gently tap the bent area with just enough pressure until it is straight. Another straightening method is to put the piece to be straightened in a vice and rotate the piece to the "curved" portion of the firing pin in the jaws of the vice and tighten until straight. I do not suggest striking the firing pin while it is in the vice with a hammer as you might break the firing pin if you aren't very careful. If it appears the end has been blunted, you can try and taper it back with a file and finish it off with some very fine emory paper. This should solve your "sticking" issue and you can't hurt the firing pin by trying it. If it works, it will save you some $$ and you will have retained the original firing pin. I have done this and it works fine.

Regards,

jack1653

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Big Dooley
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Re: Rem Model 8 Slam fires

Post by Big Dooley » Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:33 pm

Thanks Jack for the tips. I plan to try and straighten it like you suggested later this evening. Hopefully this will take care of it and I can begin using the rifle without fear of a slam fire. Thanks again.

Big Dooley
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Big Dooley
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Re: Rem Model 8 Slam fires

Post by Big Dooley » Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:49 am

Here is the problem. Bent firing pin. My brother and I were able to straighten it and it is working in the bolt correctly now. Will try to get to the range this weekend and try it out.
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Roger
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Re: Rem Model 8 Slam fires

Post by Roger » Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:04 pm

Big Dooley, I have to wonder what in the world did that gunsmith do to your rifle @ that firing pin in order for it to look like that?
Thanks,
Roger
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Big Dooley
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Re: Rem Model 8 Slam fires

Post by Big Dooley » Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:48 pm

I haven't been able to figure out what happened to it. Not sure if it was that way when he worked on it or not. I don't know if he checked that either. I have a much better understanding of how the rifle works now though.
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Big Dooley
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Re: Rem Model 8 Slam fires

Post by Big Dooley » Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:24 am

Well, we finally figured out what the problem was. After straightening the bent firing pin we found, I took it to the range this past Saturday to try it out. I loaded a round into the magazine and when I pressed the bolt release the gun fired. This was the same problem as before. I checked the empty case and the primer was almost punctured so I figured that the pin was too long and had probably bent again. At this point, I cased the gun and took it back home. I had already ordered a Glend Arms replacement firing pin so I figured when it came I would compare them. The new pin came on Monday and so my brother and I began our work. My brother is a very talented machinist and is always very helpful when problems like this come up. The new Glend Arms firing pin was quite a bit shorter but the profile of the pin is also very different than the old pin. The shoulder on the Glend Arms pin that the return spring sits against was smaller in diameter than the original so we weren't happy with it. It looked like the spring could work its way up onto the body of the new pin and we were afraid it might not work properly so we decided to fix the old pin. My brother straightened it again and we reinstalled it in the bolt assembly to see how much it protruded through the bolt face when it was depressed from the back. We took our measurements and then shortened the original pin so that it now sits where it is supposed to. We made several checks on the workbench but would have to check it on the range to make sure it was corrected. My brother and I took it to the range on Tuesday evening and I loaded a round into the magazine again. I pressed the bolt release and it closed like it should with no slamfires or problems. I pulled the bolt back ejecting the live round and checked the primer. No marks were present. I loaded the round into the magazine and released the bolt twice more with no problems at all. I then fired a round and loaded the rifle again. A rain storm blew in and we had to postpone shooting for a little while but we continued to load rounds into the magazine and release the bolt. It is functioning now with no issues. We determined that the reason the orignal firing pin had bent was because it was too long to begin with. Not sure why but it was. When the rain stopped I placed a target at 50 yards and with the remaining light we had to shoot I decided to see how it would group. I shot a 1 inch 3 shot group at 50 yards before the light faded to the point the sights were hard to see. I am very happy with the performance and I am looking forward to hunting whitetails with it this fall. Now I can practice with it and use this great old rifle that my fiance' gave me for Christmas this past year to hunt with and enjoy. She has already requested I bring her deer meat so she can cook it for us. Thanks for everyone's help with suggestions on this problem. This is a great forum and I really enjoy reading and looking at it. Have a great day!
[b]Big Dooley[/b]

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imfuncity
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Re: Rem Model 8 Slam fires

Post by imfuncity » Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:05 am

Great story - good info, glad you found the issue... now to bring home dinner! :D
Though defensive violence will always be “a sad necessity” in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men. - St. Augustine

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Big Dooley
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Re: Rem Model 8 Slam fires

Post by Big Dooley » Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:01 am

Hello everyone, just wanted to let you know that I was able to take a nice doe on opening day of gun season with my Remington Model 8. It was the most fun hunt I have had. I love hunting with this old rifle.
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Roger
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Re: Rem Model 8 Slam fires

Post by Roger » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:39 pm

Awesome,I love it when these rifles get used for their real @ original purpose.good job.
Thanks for your time,
Roger
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olskool
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Re: Rem Model 8 Slam fires

Post by olskool » Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:12 am

nice doe dooley, i love hunting with my 8. it is a 32rem. and very accurate, i have killed two spikes with mine so far this year. i want a 35 next.
I have never harvested an animal, but I have killed quite a few.............

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