Having recently acquired a Model 81 in .300 Savage, and having read some scuttlebutt on the internet before joining this site, I read comments from some pundits that the Model 81 should only be fired with loads 10% under those typically listed in reloading manuals.
Having loaded for many years myself, I always start conservatively and bracket upwards after initial tests have confirmed the need to do so using components which have provided the best accuracy during testing - load development.
Since I already own a Savage model 99 in .300 Savage and am comfortable with the loads I have developed in that rifle, is there anything known about the Model 81 not being able to handle rounds that are suitable in a vintage Savage model 99?
My second question involves the use of cast bullets in this firearm.
Since I am not familiar with how this firearm functions, and I frequently cast my own sized, lubed, gas-checked Linotype projectiles in a variety of sizes/weights and calibers, would those of you who know more about the design of these rifles advise my to pursue or avoid cast bullets in the model 81 due to how its gas system works?
Thank you
Duane
P.S.: If anyone has references to where a design overview or concise design specifications for the Model 81 can be obtained, I would appreciate knowing where.
Reloading for the .300 Savage - 10% reduction, linotype proj
Re: Reloading for the .300 Savage - 10% reduction, linotype proj
Never bothered with cast in the 8 or 81, but my old Lyman manual mentioned that loads using 4227 were the only ones that would reliably cycle.
"The sound of shot sweeping through the air toward you is impressive though. I'll give you that. It's like being swatted with the broom of God."
Re: Reloading for the .300 Savage - 10% reduction, linotype proj
You might check the loads in another recent thread here: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1845
They don't look like reduced loads to me, but they are not cast loads either.
They don't look like reduced loads to me, but they are not cast loads either.
Re: Reloading for the .300 Savage - 10% reduction, linotype proj
Any load producing MVs approximately the same as factory loads with the same bullet weights should be safe in any rifle chambered in .300 Savage. Likewise, any data found in a reputable loading manual should also be safe for any rifle (unless there is a warning). I don't believe I have ever seen such a warning. I think it is always prudent to keep a little below top loads given in manuals. Problem is, many manuals will give different top loads for any combination of bullet and powder.
I have limited experience with lead bullets. Mine is that in any caliber, they are for sure not up to the accuracy of jacked bullets. Case in point. This week, I fired quite a few different loads in a fairly new button-rifled .30-'06 using 185 grain lead bullets with gas checks. MVs were around 1600 ft/sec The best grouping I got (5-shot groups) at 100 yards was about 5", with most even worse. That same rifle will shoot about any jacketed bullet load and get groups between 1-1/4" to 2" all day long. My one and only experience in using 150 grain lead bullet loads in my M81 in .30 Rem was enough to convince me that it's not worth the effort. Most didn't hit the paper, and of those that did, they were all over the place. And these were with hard lead commercial bullets made for the .30-30, not something I cast myself. I can't recommend the practice, unless you just want to make noise cheaply.
I have limited experience with lead bullets. Mine is that in any caliber, they are for sure not up to the accuracy of jacked bullets. Case in point. This week, I fired quite a few different loads in a fairly new button-rifled .30-'06 using 185 grain lead bullets with gas checks. MVs were around 1600 ft/sec The best grouping I got (5-shot groups) at 100 yards was about 5", with most even worse. That same rifle will shoot about any jacketed bullet load and get groups between 1-1/4" to 2" all day long. My one and only experience in using 150 grain lead bullet loads in my M81 in .30 Rem was enough to convince me that it's not worth the effort. Most didn't hit the paper, and of those that did, they were all over the place. And these were with hard lead commercial bullets made for the .30-30, not something I cast myself. I can't recommend the practice, unless you just want to make noise cheaply.
Re: Reloading for the .300 Savage - 10% reduction, linotype proj
Regarding shooting cast bullets, I am sorry that your experience with cast has been so poor.
My own background is with members of Santiago Rifle and Pistol Club (now defunct). The shooters there shot 10 - 10 shot matches every Sunday, and put in 2 bits for each match. The winner (smallest groups dead center, if highest points were all the same) took home the pot.
These gentlemen regularly shot quarter-sized 10 shot groups. In fact, if you got out of your quarter-sized group on any one of your 10 targets, you pretty much 'picked up your marbles and went home' as you had lost for the day.
I myself have shot 5-shot cast bullet groups at 100 yards that you can completely cover with a penny. Now this was with a bolt-action rifle (through which only cast bullets had been fired) sporting a 36X scope from a bench-rest. I also cast, gas-check, size & lube my own bullets, so have never had any reason to try commercial cast (and its highly probable that I never will).
It should be noted that those of us who shoot cast bullets wouldn't ever hesitate to hunt with them, although our 'mix' might vary for our hunting loads whereas in target shooting we use linotype exclusively.
Furthermore, gas-checked, hard-cast bullets are shot at or below 1800fps, while plain base bullets are shot at or below 1400fps.
I would encourage you to experiment with casting bullets yourself (and perhaps the 81 isn't the best platform to try this on).
I posed my question primarily because I didn't want to plug up a gas port with lead fowling or something similar.
If I can help in regards to cast bullets, please let me know.
I will happy to as time permits.
Duane
My own background is with members of Santiago Rifle and Pistol Club (now defunct). The shooters there shot 10 - 10 shot matches every Sunday, and put in 2 bits for each match. The winner (smallest groups dead center, if highest points were all the same) took home the pot.
These gentlemen regularly shot quarter-sized 10 shot groups. In fact, if you got out of your quarter-sized group on any one of your 10 targets, you pretty much 'picked up your marbles and went home' as you had lost for the day.
I myself have shot 5-shot cast bullet groups at 100 yards that you can completely cover with a penny. Now this was with a bolt-action rifle (through which only cast bullets had been fired) sporting a 36X scope from a bench-rest. I also cast, gas-check, size & lube my own bullets, so have never had any reason to try commercial cast (and its highly probable that I never will).
It should be noted that those of us who shoot cast bullets wouldn't ever hesitate to hunt with them, although our 'mix' might vary for our hunting loads whereas in target shooting we use linotype exclusively.
Furthermore, gas-checked, hard-cast bullets are shot at or below 1800fps, while plain base bullets are shot at or below 1400fps.
I would encourage you to experiment with casting bullets yourself (and perhaps the 81 isn't the best platform to try this on).
I posed my question primarily because I didn't want to plug up a gas port with lead fowling or something similar.
If I can help in regards to cast bullets, please let me know.
I will happy to as time permits.
Duane
Re: Reloading for the .300 Savage - 10% reduction, linotype proj
Just my experience, and I stand by it. Any cast bullet loads I have ever fired came out of the Lyman cast bullet handbook, and were not of my own invention. Regarding casting, I have done it some years back, found it to be too time consuming and labor-intensive when I could buy them from someone else reasonably (I fire thousands of handgun cast bullet rounds annually, which I reload myself). I continue to cast round balls for MLs and C&B revolvers.
By the way, the Model 81 has no gas port.
By the way, the Model 81 has no gas port.
Re: Reloading for the .300 Savage - 10% reduction, linotype proj
"By the way, the Model 81 has no gas port." Exactly what I was going to say.
Recoil is via springs inside the barrel sleeve and receiver - very unique operation.
Clicking on the rifle at the top of the page will take you to another group of pages – where I copied the info below:
Video on dissasembly
http://thegreatmodel8.remingtonsociety.com/?page_id=842
A click on a parts diagram to help understand how the rifle functions:
http://thegreatmodel8.remingtonsociety.com/?page_id=294
Enjoy
Recoil is via springs inside the barrel sleeve and receiver - very unique operation.
Clicking on the rifle at the top of the page will take you to another group of pages – where I copied the info below:
Video on dissasembly
http://thegreatmodel8.remingtonsociety.com/?page_id=842
A click on a parts diagram to help understand how the rifle functions:
http://thegreatmodel8.remingtonsociety.com/?page_id=294
Enjoy
Though defensive violence will always be “a sad necessity” in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men. - St. Augustine
Re: Reloading for the .300 Savage - 10% reduction, linotype proj
I have reloaded cast bullets for my Model 81 300 Savage. I have used mostly the Rcbs 308-165-Sil which weighs about 170 gr. when cast of wheelweights. I heat treat them to get them about as hard linotype which about 22 bhn. I can't qoute powder charges since I don't have my log book handy. I suggest starting 15 per cent below handbook maximums listed for the same weight jacketed bullet. Work up till the rifle will function. As for accuracy that depends on more variables than I have time to discuss here.
Re: Reloading for the .300 Savage - 10% reduction, linotype proj
Okay, so, thank you for your responses.
What I am hearing is that the model 81 should handle anything that a comparable model 99 Savage would handle, and as far as lead bullets go, there are no gas ports to plug or foul (as in other sem-autos), and as such, as long as I can get good accuracy out of my model 81 with the appropriate lead bullets, go for it!
Thank you
Duane
What I am hearing is that the model 81 should handle anything that a comparable model 99 Savage would handle, and as far as lead bullets go, there are no gas ports to plug or foul (as in other sem-autos), and as such, as long as I can get good accuracy out of my model 81 with the appropriate lead bullets, go for it!
Thank you
Duane