Hornady leverevolution 35 REM...is it safe?????

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jiminthecorner
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Hornady leverevolution 35 REM...is it safe?????

Post by jiminthecorner »

Hi this newbie Canuck just got amodel 81 in 35 REM, and heard it was too powerful for the 81. Can this be true??????????? I haven't shot mine yet but it came with the Hornadys.
Please advise, Jim :?:
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Hardrada55
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Re: Hornady leverevolution 35 REM...is it safe?????

Post by Hardrada55 »

Check out this topic. This is just my opinion. I think people have probably done it...and nothing bad happened. So alot of people are going to think nothing bad will happen every time they do it.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=234&hilit=Hornaday
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DWalt
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Re: Hornady leverevolution 35 REM...is it safe?????

Post by DWalt »

The whole idea of the Leverevolution round was a streamlined bullet (higher ballistic coefficient) that would be primer-safe in a tubular magazine. As a bonus, the energy is a little higher than that of a conventional round. However, even though I don't know this for sure, the chamber pressure would still have to meet SAAMI pressure standards, therefore it should be safe for use in any gun chambered for the .35 Rem. Having said that, you must certainly pay a premium price for Leverevolution ammunition, and I very seriously doubt that there is much ballistic benefit to be gained in using it at hunting ranges at which guns in .35 Remington are most often employed. In short, I don't see any compelling reason to use it over a standard RN round at any hunting distance at which you are likely to be able to hit anything with a Model 8/81 . I consider the Leverevolution to be much more a brilliant marketing strategy than a great leap forward in ballistic performance.

If I were routinely hunting at ranges over 150 yards, I would choose a rifle in a caliber (.270, .30-'06, etc.) that has a a flat trajectory, superior grouping capability, and high retained energy, all of which do not describe a Model 8/81 in any caliber. Regardless of what ammunition you use, if you can't hit it, you can't eat it.

To those that take issue with this position, it's your money and if you can afford Leverevolution ammunition and believe it can make you a better hunter, then by all means go ahead and buy it. But don't expect it to provide any better results on deer at 100 yards than the more pedestrian (and cheaper) .35 Remington ammunition from Federal, Remington, and Winchester.
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imfuncity
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Re: Hornady leverevolution 35 REM...is it safe?????

Post by imfuncity »

Good question.

DWalt - I like your logic. These were built for minute of deer, not targets.
Though defensive violence will always be “a sad necessity” in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men. - St. Augustine
DWalt
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Re: Hornady leverevolution 35 REM...is it safe?????

Post by DWalt »

PS to my earlier comments - The business of primer safety in a tubular magazine using spitzer bullets may not actually be an issue at all (and it certainly is not an issue in the Models 14 and 141 due to the tube design). I remember an article I read somewhere years ago about an extensive series of tests being performed to determine if pointed bullets could cause primer ignition under recoil in a Winchester 94 (or Marlin) magazine. I don't remember details, but the conclusion was that it could not be made to occur, even under recoil conditions far more severe than could ever actually exist. But I guess you can't have too much safety, so the advice about not using pointed bullets in a tubular magazine still applies to this day (except for Leverevolution ammunition). Maybe that would be a good project for Mythbusters.

By the way - back in the really early days of the Model 94, .30-30 ammunition with pointed bullets was actually factory loaded, but it used a special double primer cup design which prevented the sharp bullet tip from contacting the primer in the round ahead of it in a tubular magazine. I have seen some of those early rounds.
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tx81
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Re: Hornady leverevolution 35 REM...is it safe?????

Post by tx81 »

Hornady manufactured their LeveRevolution rounds for the type of rifle that's in the title - Lever Action.

The powder and bullets were specifically designed with lever action chamber pressures in mind.

To use the LeveRevolution rounds in anything besides a lever action rifle would (personal opinion here) put one's self in danger.

My $.02 worth.
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brian.35
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Re: Hornady leverevolution 35 REM...is it safe?????

Post by brian.35 »

Hi, I have been asking myself the same question ever since my father gave me a box of .35 rem leverevolution for Christmas 2 years ago.

I am not trying to influence anyone's decision about this question but here are my thoughts/questions:

1) I emailed Hornady and they responded that it was "perfectly safe" to use in the Remington 81. I would hope that the anonymous customer service person who answered my email was well informed but their 1 sentence reply did not give me 100% confidence.

2) The 81 action will handle 300 savage with SAAMI pressure level of 46,000 CUP and .35 Rem has a SAAMI pressure of only 33500 CUP. If the leverevolution doesn't have increased pressure levels why would it be dangerous?

3) I have read several internet articles stating that leverevolution ammunition is only safe to use in "locked breech" firearms but I don't see that warning on the box of ammunition that I have or on Hornady's website. In any case, doesn't the 8/81 have a "locked breech" since the bolt and barrel remain locked together until the bullet has left the barrel?

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me can provide some insight.

Thanks,
Brian
DWalt
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Re: Hornady leverevolution 35 REM...is it safe?????

Post by DWalt »

I don't know of any rifle chambered for the .35 Remington that does not have a locked (or fixed) breech, as opposed to blowback, such as the various older Winchester SLRs. As I stated earlier, SAAMI standards govern maximum allowable chamber pressures, and if Leverevolution chamber pressures were above established SAAMI maximums for the .35 Remington, the ammunition manufacturer would necessarily have to make that fact known by designating same on the headstamp or cartridge box (such as +P or +P+ as used for handgun ammunition). As ammunition manufacturers are very concerned about their legal liability as a result of gun damage or personal injury, they would never sell a product that could result in damage or injury without the appropriate warnings being posted. You can be assured that if there were specific rifles chambered in .35 Remington that were unsafe for use with Leverevolution ammunition, there would be warnings in bright red letters all over the box to that effect. As there are no such warnings, then Leverevolution must be considered as being safe in the M8/81 (even though I personally believe there is no economic or ballistic benefit to using Leverevolution ammunition in them). Lawyers get rich from unsafe products, and all manufacturers are well aware of that.
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imfuncity
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Re: Hornady leverevolution 35 REM...is it safe?????

Post by imfuncity »

...and since Hornady has to meet SAAMI wouldn't CUP information on the new ammo be available like FPS etc., thus solving the safety issue?
Though defensive violence will always be “a sad necessity” in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men. - St. Augustine
J. Riekers
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Re: Hornady leverevolution 35 REM...is it safe?????

Post by J. Riekers »

As a Professional Hunter I test various ammo and bullets constantly for articles, books and ammunition companies that are testing their own products as well as comparing their competitors. Frankly, the Hornady LE ammo has not proven to be better than any other brand or bullet/load on game or in accuracy from a variety of rifles. I shoot probably 100 big game animals a year plus my clients take one or more 325 days a year. I see a lot of dead animals. The Hornady ammo has a different length brass to accomodate their different length bullet with the LeverEvolution. You must not use regular 200 grain load data if you are reloading the Hornday brass! I don't mean to take you to another forum, but I wrote up a comprehensive report that includes the Horndady LeverEvolution here: http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... lit=35+Rem
Whether it is safe or not in your 8/81 is up to you, but my point is there is no reason to shoot it when there are better options.
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DWalt
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Re: Hornady leverevolution 35 REM...is it safe?????

Post by DWalt »

Good point. I was not aware there was a difference in the case length, and do not remember seeing any warnings about reloading the Hornady case.

Regardless, my main point is that the M8/81 is by its nature far from being capable of producing MOA groups, and therefore there's not much point at using it for hunting at other than at relatively short ranges, say 100 to 150 yards tops, as the risk of wounding or missing is greatly increased at greater distances. And at short range, the benefits of the improved ballistic coefficient of Leverevolution bullets are minimal, given that there is no safety hazard in using Leverevolution in a M8/81. If one had a much more accurate rifle (such as one of the rare Winchester M70s) in .35 Rem, the improved longer range Leverevolution ballistics could be more advantageous.
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Please see my more recent posting regarding the safety issues associated with reloading Leverevolution cases with conventional RN bullets.
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